@ Markbakk: >>front wall reflection control in low frequencies
Hmm, the science Toole taught at Canada's NRC in the mid to late 1980s was that low frequencies spread in an omnidirectional pattern, which, is why thunder can be heard from any direction, yet, lightening can only be heard when directly overhead, because, high frequencies are directional. Fairly basic stuff. The best was to hear low frequencies is to feel them in the gut. The best way to set up a room is to leave a door open so they can spread, without returning outta phase by nailing a boundary, almost pandemic like in their propagation! hahaha
Hmm, the science Toole taught at Canada's NRC in the mid to late 1980s was that low frequencies spread in an omnidirectional pattern, which, is why thunder can be heard from any direction, yet, lightening can only be heard when directly overhead, because, high frequencies are directional. Fairly basic stuff. The best was to hear low frequencies is to feel them in the gut. The best way to set up a room is to leave a door open so they can spread, without returning outta phase by nailing a boundary, almost pandemic like in their propagation! hahaha
And rightly so!
I got to hear the Waveforms several times but was never fortunate to get them for review.
Well? What did you hear? 🙂
'Glad to see John posting here.
Bringing this saga back for a revisit is yet another reminder of the silly power "reviewers" have over the silly "high-end" audio industry. It's so full of self-deception and intellectual dishonesty, and legitimate products that are moving the bar higher get one stupid evaluation and it essentially sinks the ship.
Dave.
Kal,
I hope all is well with you and yours! I was referring to the Eos system that Artemis Systems sent to you for review. My comment was meant to be an example of how (understandably) nervous manufacturers can get when reviewers are involved.
Johnson Knowles
Thanks, lads for this mention of what my tiny cottage industry wrought over 2 decades ago.
Without entering into any tech discussion, for the best way to reproduce sound in a transducer, let me only state the obvious: the speaker that distinguishes the greatest number of differences from recording to recording must be the most accurate. That's what the term HiFi once meant, in other words, faithfulness to the source whether CD, LP or DVD let alone tape. hahaha
Movies, especially the spoken word, plus streaming sources are abysmal reflections of what we have loved our entire lives, at least for those of us who played with sound and the gear needed to replicate *that* HiFi.
There was never an iota of incorrectness associated with what Toole developed with all of us manufacturers being his willing supplicants in the theory for what measurements to employ in developing a good loudspeaker. Of course, that went against the grain, by challenging the very nature of so-called "high-end" in the first place. 'No standards are allowed. Our reviewers will be the final arbiters.'
Yeah, I still listen. It's no wonder that accuracy never achieved a standard for replicating music and film, since, there was no standard for the initial recording. All Toole ever wanted was that the same sounds that were heard in our listening rooms in our own homes, would be akin to the same sounds heard by the engineers and producers making the recordings. Now *that* would be accuracy and heresy to American capitalism. hahaha
Without entering into any tech discussion, for the best way to reproduce sound in a transducer, let me only state the obvious: the speaker that distinguishes the greatest number of differences from recording to recording must be the most accurate. That's what the term HiFi once meant, in other words, faithfulness to the source whether CD, LP or DVD let alone tape. hahaha
Movies, especially the spoken word, plus streaming sources are abysmal reflections of what we have loved our entire lives, at least for those of us who played with sound and the gear needed to replicate *that* HiFi.
There was never an iota of incorrectness associated with what Toole developed with all of us manufacturers being his willing supplicants in the theory for what measurements to employ in developing a good loudspeaker. Of course, that went against the grain, by challenging the very nature of so-called "high-end" in the first place. 'No standards are allowed. Our reviewers will be the final arbiters.'
Yeah, I still listen. It's no wonder that accuracy never achieved a standard for replicating music and film, since, there was no standard for the initial recording. All Toole ever wanted was that the same sounds that were heard in our listening rooms in our own homes, would be akin to the same sounds heard by the engineers and producers making the recordings. Now *that* would be accuracy and heresy to American capitalism. hahaha
Do you really expect me to remember? What I can recall is that I lusted after them.
Yes, we are all remarkably fortunate. I hope you can say the same.
I knew that. ;-)
[QUOTE}My comment was meant to be an example of how (understandably) nervous manufacturers can get when reviewers are involved. [/QUOTE] That was early enough in my career as a reviewer that I can say it is likely I was equally nervous. Let me add that, to this day, my wife still compares newly arrived speakers to her appreciation of the Eos.
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Thanks for the this post. I thoroughly enjoyed the read. I think many of us went into DIY because of all of the BS associated with HiFi reviews. My system has excellent drivers, is fully active and my total investment is around $2,500 - quite a bit less then the 365k Wilson speakers (WTF!).
Great thread - glad to see someone still talking about these. They really do sound like a mini-monitor, but with bass. I’ve never heard a speaker that disappears into the music as well. It would have been interesting to see how the design would have evolved if Waveform had endured for maybe 5yrs more - I’d love to hear them with the Vifa ring radiator tweeter. The egg is absolutely dead - hitting it is like knocking on granite - brilliant design and implementation. Anyway, having fun - here’s a quick pic of my current setup, now I’m going back to listening 🙂
