I just wanted to know if there are any recommended DIY designs that are documented out there that have the following attributes:
Stand Mount/bookshelf suitable for 5-6' out listening from my position
Waveguide Constant Directivity Based Design
Sealed Enclosure (I know this kills efficiency but I much prefer the tight bass)
MTM design (to gain back some of the efficiency and because I've noticed a commonality between 'slam' and 'impact' when dual smaller woofers are employed. This is optional but I believe it's something that would give me what I want.
For music not HT so I'm looking for that elusive vague 'musical' attribute.
I don't need deep response, I will be leveraging an adjustable high pass/low pass and dual M&K 70b subs for low bass.
Not harsh in the highs or overly forward - I don't dislike Klipsch but I'm looking for a dynamic audiophile experience that is not going to cause fatigue after an hour.
I think this will give me:
1. Constant directivity.
2. Good dynamics.
3. Relatively good efficiency considering the sealed design can be slightly offset by the dual drivers as far as efficiency goes.
4. Tight bass due to the sealed enclosure
5. Smooth highs due to the waveguide based design - maybe seos?
Am I off target and have you heard of any designs that would work well with these prioritized 'wants'? Just looking for some guidance on selection and if my suppositions are fair. If DIY sound group had their HT or HTM series in stock with the smaller stand mounted capable models I would likely go there even though none of their wave guide based designs are MTM just to be able to leverage a flat pack versus constructing a cabinet again.
Thanks!
John
Stand Mount/bookshelf suitable for 5-6' out listening from my position
Waveguide Constant Directivity Based Design
Sealed Enclosure (I know this kills efficiency but I much prefer the tight bass)
MTM design (to gain back some of the efficiency and because I've noticed a commonality between 'slam' and 'impact' when dual smaller woofers are employed. This is optional but I believe it's something that would give me what I want.
For music not HT so I'm looking for that elusive vague 'musical' attribute.
I don't need deep response, I will be leveraging an adjustable high pass/low pass and dual M&K 70b subs for low bass.
Not harsh in the highs or overly forward - I don't dislike Klipsch but I'm looking for a dynamic audiophile experience that is not going to cause fatigue after an hour.
I think this will give me:
1. Constant directivity.
2. Good dynamics.
3. Relatively good efficiency considering the sealed design can be slightly offset by the dual drivers as far as efficiency goes.
4. Tight bass due to the sealed enclosure
5. Smooth highs due to the waveguide based design - maybe seos?
Am I off target and have you heard of any designs that would work well with these prioritized 'wants'? Just looking for some guidance on selection and if my suppositions are fair. If DIY sound group had their HT or HTM series in stock with the smaller stand mounted capable models I would likely go there even though none of their wave guide based designs are MTM just to be able to leverage a flat pack versus constructing a cabinet again.
Thanks!
John
Sealed is already the more popular for these designs. I don't think your concerns about efficiency are justified. Sealed and vented give the same nominal sensitivity, which applies through most of the band as these larger woofers are used wide-range.
MTM is interesting but will present you with a directivity challenge.
MTM is interesting but will present you with a directivity challenge.
Allen thank you for the input, so sealed won't be an issue with a waveguide based designs. So sealed doesn't reduce efficiency, just impacts roll-off and low end extension? I have long been under the impression that a sealed enclosure resulted in a few db less efficiency with the woofers.
Do you think that I should drop the MTM requirement and is it a poor requirement i.e. not worth pursuing? I know that the Klipsch CF series (I have a pair of CF-3) leveraged an MTM configuration but perhaps I'm not educated enough to see the challenges imparted by that requirement.
if I can satisfy the 'punch' 'tight' 'fast' 'dynamic' benefits in a single driver design that manages to maintain a bookshelf/stand mount footprint I'm game.
I've built a lot of DIY designs for fun but I am not an 'expert', I would categorize myself as 'intermediate' so I'll take any teaching moment opportunities I can get 😉
Do you think that I should drop the MTM requirement and is it a poor requirement i.e. not worth pursuing? I know that the Klipsch CF series (I have a pair of CF-3) leveraged an MTM configuration but perhaps I'm not educated enough to see the challenges imparted by that requirement.
if I can satisfy the 'punch' 'tight' 'fast' 'dynamic' benefits in a single driver design that manages to maintain a bookshelf/stand mount footprint I'm game.
I've built a lot of DIY designs for fun but I am not an 'expert', I would categorize myself as 'intermediate' so I'll take any teaching moment opportunities I can get 😉
The Apollo 7 looks nice on diysoundgroup. Unfortunately the mtm is out of stock. Should be enough if you give it some power. The woofer and tweeter are on the upper end of output capabilities for their class. You can leave the port out if you wish or keep it for versatility. Can always block it later.
Integrating your subs and speakers to the room is the key to tight punchy dynamic sound. A measurement mic is highly recommend. ARTA and REW are very useful free measurement software packages.
I absolutely do use one. I use a umic with REW to tune my crossover, bass, and high pass levels for flat response below 100 hz. That's part of the reason I want acoustic suspension but a lot of that 'punch' is midbass dynamics imparted by the speaker's drivers not the subwoofer so I still need that character in the actual speakers.
I've always eyed the Apollo's on DIYSG but they are not a wave guide based design nor are they an acoustic suspension design.
I've always eyed the Apollo's on DIYSG but they are not a wave guide based design nor are they an acoustic suspension design.
The single woofer version can be excellent.
The MTM is a little different in directivity. It might be better in some ways, worse in others, and more difficult to design. It's pattern for matching to a waveguide won't be round, and most commercial asymmetrical waveguides are based on compromises for which you'll want to understand the reasons.
The MTM is a little different in directivity. It might be better in some ways, worse in others, and more difficult to design. It's pattern for matching to a waveguide won't be round, and most commercial asymmetrical waveguides are based on compromises for which you'll want to understand the reasons.
Roger that Allen. So for the form factor, perhaps 8 or 10 inch acoustic suspension wave guide based design so that it can fit on a stand. Would that be accurate?
Yes, I suppose that stand mount and sealed is the default. 12" and 15" are also common. A round waveguide the same size as the woofer would also be the default.
Are you familiar with Geddes?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Is it possible to cover the whole spectrum, high spl, low distortion with a 2-way?
Yeah, his are the only ones that come to mind, but NLA unless some used ones [become] available.
GM
GM
seas bragi uses the dxt waveguide tweeter in an mtm, but reflex and quite expensive
Seas Bragi MTM Speaker Kit
Seas Bragi MTM Speaker Kit
I am, unfortunately he has stopped selling his designs reducing my options. Between that and DIYSG being out of stock I'm left with being pointed as a well documented design and starting from scratch for the most part.
Indeed, it is on the pricier side but not prohibitive. However although that is a waveguide I don't believe it's an actual CD based design with SEOS or a 'legit' wavegide if that makes sense. I appreciate the point out and contribution though...seas as a manufacturer makes such great sounding drivers.