I've been a long time critic and opponent of wind turbines. They are extremely ugly to took at destroying otherwise peaceful views of their surroundings, and they are noisy to their neighbors. But the worst part is that they kill more than 573,000 innocent creatures each year in the United States including eagles, hawks, falcons, owls and other birds. For the rather small amount of energy they produce, about 10% of the total in the US, they are not worth all the problems and destruction they cause.
On the other hand I've been a big advocate of wave and tide energy as the best solutions possible.
Now here is the announcement of a highly successful wave energy program. This technology can be continued to grow in scale with no downsided to our animal friends and hopefully we can begin to tear down the all of the ugly and destructive wind turbines.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/turning-ocean-waves-into-clean-energy/vi-BB1jbvP3
On the other hand I've been a big advocate of wave and tide energy as the best solutions possible.
Now here is the announcement of a highly successful wave energy program. This technology can be continued to grow in scale with no downsided to our animal friends and hopefully we can begin to tear down the all of the ugly and destructive wind turbines.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/turning-ocean-waves-into-clean-energy/vi-BB1jbvP3
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I'm reminded of Salter's Duck or the Edinburgh Duck, invented in response to the oil crisis of the 70s, but abandoned in the early 80s.
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/salters-duck1.htm
https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/salters-duck1.htm
Clevage++ -I like. If no major change since last I read up on wave energy, the environment is just too harsh. Wave energy systems simply broke down before they had paid themselves.
Im ready to jump aboard when that looks to change drastically. I like looking at windmills, and I can tollerate some noise. They shouldn't be placed close to homes, but they've gotten damn efficient in making energy and money for their owners. My village had a common windmill generating tons of revenue already 40 years ago. My friend had the job of restarting it on his way to and from school, if it had stopped for some reason. Today they are infinitely more efficient.
Cheers!
Im ready to jump aboard when that looks to change drastically. I like looking at windmills, and I can tollerate some noise. They shouldn't be placed close to homes, but they've gotten damn efficient in making energy and money for their owners. My village had a common windmill generating tons of revenue already 40 years ago. My friend had the job of restarting it on his way to and from school, if it had stopped for some reason. Today they are infinitely more efficient.
Cheers!
We will need many different sources of energy. Hard to use wave power on the prairies.
I have been waiting for them to tame ther Bay of Funday. More tides than waves thou.
But the critters (more bats than birds it seems)…
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/do-wind-turbines-kill-birds
dave
I have been waiting for them to tame ther Bay of Funday. More tides than waves thou.
But the critters (more bats than birds it seems)…
https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/do-wind-turbines-kill-birds
dave
I'm prompted to find out more about what I've discovered is called the "Mediterranean Outflow":
https://www.livescience.com/29738-strait-of-gibraltar-where-atlantic-meets-mediterranean.html#:~:text=As water flows into and out of the,the ocean, known as the Mediterranean Outflow water.
"An upper layer of Atlantic water flows eastward into the sea over a lower layer of saltier and heavier Mediterranean water flowing westward into the ocean, known as the Mediterranean Outflow water."
However, I've yet to come across details of a scheme to extract energy from the outflow.
https://www.livescience.com/29738-strait-of-gibraltar-where-atlantic-meets-mediterranean.html#:~:text=As water flows into and out of the,the ocean, known as the Mediterranean Outflow water.
"An upper layer of Atlantic water flows eastward into the sea over a lower layer of saltier and heavier Mediterranean water flowing westward into the ocean, known as the Mediterranean Outflow water."
However, I've yet to come across details of a scheme to extract energy from the outflow.
The most efficient wave power units I have heard of have far fewer moving parts is a water column unit.
The duck system has a web of hydraulic pipes with gaskets that can leak right from the start. cheap to install.
A water column in a heave plinth drives a big air bubble into a one way valve and into a turbine.
The best way by far is to build a series of steps on the coast with sockets in them where the waves push the air into them where one way valves send the air to an on shore turbine. No off shore moving parts except the one way valves. There will still be ugly structures for people to complain with all of them.
The out of sight out of mind system is on trial with under water turbines is off the west coast of UK and is driven by the Gulf Stream. It will have a power output that will vary less with tides than the one in the Straits of Gibraltar with less risk of damage from shipping accidents as another bonus. Mostly freight falling overboard.
The duck system has a web of hydraulic pipes with gaskets that can leak right from the start. cheap to install.
A water column in a heave plinth drives a big air bubble into a one way valve and into a turbine.
The best way by far is to build a series of steps on the coast with sockets in them where the waves push the air into them where one way valves send the air to an on shore turbine. No off shore moving parts except the one way valves. There will still be ugly structures for people to complain with all of them.
The out of sight out of mind system is on trial with under water turbines is off the west coast of UK and is driven by the Gulf Stream. It will have a power output that will vary less with tides than the one in the Straits of Gibraltar with less risk of damage from shipping accidents as another bonus. Mostly freight falling overboard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_solar_power would get my vote. There's bound to be some noise from turbines running and one would think by senses, animals would stay away from traversing the light path. Not like it's sticking up in their way...
But certainly no need to use wind turbines on either coast where wave and tide power could supply most if not all of the power needed. According to the that web article wave power could provide 66% of the total electical power requirement in the US. And then we could stop killing all those beautiful birds needlessly.
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The future of energy should be a mix of many different technologies, but it is not a lack of usable ideas that put's a brake on.
The best idea for producing sun fuel, which can really replace fossil hydrocarbon fluids where batteries are no option, is solar parks in the desert. No valuable cultivable land lost, no animal disturbed, constant sunlight hours and jobs created to clean and maintain them. The Sahara has enough room and capital, but the next mullah that wakes up with a headache and decides that this is a non Islamic technology, will send crowds of supporters to destroy it, no question asked. If all mullahs get their share from the solar generated wealth, some primitive neighbor, like the Hutis from Yemen, will sent Iranian drones with cluster bombs. The world they have created around them prevents the people from a better future, ironic. The wealthy investors of the Arab world know this just too well. They would love to have free, clean energy, to prepare for the time when their oil is finally finished. That is why they now want nuclear energy, which can be protected much better.
In the UK, where farmers would like to bring low value farm land to dual use, which means solar panels on stilts, sheep grasing and gardening on the ground, the local councils don't allow it. They don't want their clever neighbor have a solid income they don't have. So envy and resentment prevents the UK from going green. OK, the Brits are special anyway, but sure this view is not limited to the British Isles.
In Germany, where some villages give their inhabitants a share of the wind generated energy, they embrace wind mills with open arms. No opposition and locals chase any anti wind energy activist from the meadow.
A few a few miles further, where some large energy company want's the wind for free, to extort the people as they ares used to, people fight it like the worst evil on earth. Maybe justifiably.
Should there be a discussion, whether the wind, sun and waves can be owned by a few greedy capitalists?
Which makes the whole clean energy future a very political thing.
PS @classicalfan
Dear Mr. Birdlove,
please tell us what you use an a daily base and I will tell you what kind of negative effect this has. If you just sit on you butt, int the dark cold/ heat and do nothing, you may not impact anything living. Even then, the disposal of your corpse will leave a carbon footprint.
The best idea for producing sun fuel, which can really replace fossil hydrocarbon fluids where batteries are no option, is solar parks in the desert. No valuable cultivable land lost, no animal disturbed, constant sunlight hours and jobs created to clean and maintain them. The Sahara has enough room and capital, but the next mullah that wakes up with a headache and decides that this is a non Islamic technology, will send crowds of supporters to destroy it, no question asked. If all mullahs get their share from the solar generated wealth, some primitive neighbor, like the Hutis from Yemen, will sent Iranian drones with cluster bombs. The world they have created around them prevents the people from a better future, ironic. The wealthy investors of the Arab world know this just too well. They would love to have free, clean energy, to prepare for the time when their oil is finally finished. That is why they now want nuclear energy, which can be protected much better.
In the UK, where farmers would like to bring low value farm land to dual use, which means solar panels on stilts, sheep grasing and gardening on the ground, the local councils don't allow it. They don't want their clever neighbor have a solid income they don't have. So envy and resentment prevents the UK from going green. OK, the Brits are special anyway, but sure this view is not limited to the British Isles.
In Germany, where some villages give their inhabitants a share of the wind generated energy, they embrace wind mills with open arms. No opposition and locals chase any anti wind energy activist from the meadow.
A few a few miles further, where some large energy company want's the wind for free, to extort the people as they ares used to, people fight it like the worst evil on earth. Maybe justifiably.
Should there be a discussion, whether the wind, sun and waves can be owned by a few greedy capitalists?
Which makes the whole clean energy future a very political thing.
PS @classicalfan
Dear Mr. Birdlove,
please tell us what you use an a daily base and I will tell you what kind of negative effect this has. If you just sit on you butt, int the dark cold/ heat and do nothing, you may not impact anything living. Even then, the disposal of your corpse will leave a carbon footprint.
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I once commissioned a brake system on a tidal turbine - like a windmill, but underwater. It can turn the blades to work during both directions of the tide. It works perfectly, however the problem was reliability and cost of maintenance. It was a pilot project, I do not know if it went on or not.
Tidal energy is one of the best things to harness. Sure, there's some problems to solve, but there's been relatively little effort or cash put into it. We have gone for easy solutions - solar, wind rather than invest in tidal.
Tidal energy is 24/7, so there is no need for the CCGT (gas turbine) spinning reserves.
Tidal energy is 24/7, so there is no need for the CCGT (gas turbine) spinning reserves.
A lot of energy is put in wave energy and hundreds of different implementations are running atm. Many more have been scrapped, because of reliability and cost of maintenance as pelanj mentions. They have to compete with windmills that generate profit, and maybe some of the current test installations already do or are close. I just haven't heard of any. I hope it will take of, as many other sustainable technologies.
According to the interview in the video wave energy alone could provide 66% of the total electrical need for the United States. That is huge and far exeeds the possiblities from any other eco sources. It could mean that we can finally put an end to all the ugly, noisy, bird murdering wind turbines.
Wouldn't it be an idea to build windmills on the sites of old coal burning powerstations - reasonably far from homes, brown field site, oh, and they already have connection to the grid. About 30 years ago, tommorow's world (UK TV show) showed an air pocket wave power thing that used a axial windmill that spun the same direction whichever way the air passed, aerofoil blades were the key. Wave power makes sense for the UK, if you can get the power to the grid cheaply.
I think someone did a trial of hanging solar panels vertically, and suppriseingly, found that they generated more power that way.
I think someone did a trial of hanging solar panels vertically, and suppriseingly, found that they generated more power that way.
Domestic cats kill a lot more birds than wind turbines do (by orders of magnitude), although probably not eagles(!). The UK estimates are upto 100 thousand due to wind turbines, at least 40 million by cats. At least 400 times as many, probably more like thousands of times as many.
Just to rehabilitate islamic culture, our science, medicine, mathematics, astronomy .... are heavily based on it.
That's an often cited, but entirely irrelevant statistic. You don't solve one problem by comparing it to another.
And the much bigger and more important fact is that cats aren't killing large birds like eagles, hawks, falcons, and owls. In fact it's the other way around. An eagle is much more likely to have a cat for dinner than a cat to have an eagle.
So please quit bringing up this much misunderstood statistic. It has nothing to do with wind turbines killing over a half milliion flying creatures every year in the US alone.
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So, that number 573,000 "death by windmill" seems awful doesn't it...but remember...by loping off some zeros in some calculations, I can bring things into prospective..the chances of a bird dying from the likes of a windmill...is 14,400 to One. Really good odds there.
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