Hi to you all, just a warning to all of you who use the USB2ISO (USB 2.0 Isolator - Isolated USB) or intend to use or buy one. The device is perhaps not safe to use.
A bit of history.
After sk1 as a manufacturer made us aware here at diyaudio of his USB Isolator, I ordered two of these to connect between my Musiland Monitor 02 and the pc. This was supposed to work I read here.
After receival, the first Isolator came out damaged of the small plastic bag, just as if a screwdrawer was used to force it open, but also the metal frame was buckled.
So I informed them immediatly and send it back.
After a week I emailed them if they still had not received the Isolator. Immediatly after they mailed me and blamed me for the damage, even though I haven't done anything to the unit whatsoever. Nonetheless, they said to charge me for handling and shipping. Although weeks ago, I haven't heard anything concrete yet.
Regarding the second Isolator that I connected to my Musiland, only after a restart of my pc it functioned. I made Electronicsshop.dk aware that I missed this in their manual.
Some days later however, a crackled sound suddenly started. Then some later I wasn't able to hear anything anymore.
So I removed the Isolator and noticed that the Usb Isolator smelled burned penetrantly. Fortunately my pc, as well as my Musiland functioned at the same usb port when reconnected.
Because of the risk of fire or pc damage, I guess I was lucky I was behind my pc while this happened and thus was able to unplug the USB Isolator in time.
Immediatly after the incident I informed the company about it.
Eleven (!) days after the incident and just because I asked them, they replied the following, which might be important for you to note:
"You do not need to restart PC to work with USB 2.0 Full speed devices. You have a configuration error - The Musiland is a high speed USB device 480mbit and you have something wrong in the settings, drivers etc. that does the error for you.
Most likely too high sample and/or bit rate for a full speed USB 2.0 Connection - sounds right with the missing sound and sound crackup as the symptom - the 12mbit simple does not have enough bandwidth for the chosen rates.
You should contact Musiland for help with configuration for 12mbit USB connection."
Well, I have installed my Musiland with the normal drivers and I didn't do anything to the configuration, it is all standard.
But whether this is the case or not, when the result (worst case) may be a burned down house or even a shorted motherboard, how can such product be sold?
Even though I sent that second Isolator already 14 days ago, the company says it hasn't arrived yet (not that I believe so).
I told Electronicsshop.dk that in my opinion they should stop selling their USB Isolators until its safety is proven. But since they don't act, I decided to inform you here.
A bit of history.
After sk1 as a manufacturer made us aware here at diyaudio of his USB Isolator, I ordered two of these to connect between my Musiland Monitor 02 and the pc. This was supposed to work I read here.
After receival, the first Isolator came out damaged of the small plastic bag, just as if a screwdrawer was used to force it open, but also the metal frame was buckled.
So I informed them immediatly and send it back.
After a week I emailed them if they still had not received the Isolator. Immediatly after they mailed me and blamed me for the damage, even though I haven't done anything to the unit whatsoever. Nonetheless, they said to charge me for handling and shipping. Although weeks ago, I haven't heard anything concrete yet.
Regarding the second Isolator that I connected to my Musiland, only after a restart of my pc it functioned. I made Electronicsshop.dk aware that I missed this in their manual.
Some days later however, a crackled sound suddenly started. Then some later I wasn't able to hear anything anymore.
So I removed the Isolator and noticed that the Usb Isolator smelled burned penetrantly. Fortunately my pc, as well as my Musiland functioned at the same usb port when reconnected.
Because of the risk of fire or pc damage, I guess I was lucky I was behind my pc while this happened and thus was able to unplug the USB Isolator in time.
Immediatly after the incident I informed the company about it.
Eleven (!) days after the incident and just because I asked them, they replied the following, which might be important for you to note:
"You do not need to restart PC to work with USB 2.0 Full speed devices. You have a configuration error - The Musiland is a high speed USB device 480mbit and you have something wrong in the settings, drivers etc. that does the error for you.
Most likely too high sample and/or bit rate for a full speed USB 2.0 Connection - sounds right with the missing sound and sound crackup as the symptom - the 12mbit simple does not have enough bandwidth for the chosen rates.
You should contact Musiland for help with configuration for 12mbit USB connection."
Well, I have installed my Musiland with the normal drivers and I didn't do anything to the configuration, it is all standard.
But whether this is the case or not, when the result (worst case) may be a burned down house or even a shorted motherboard, how can such product be sold?
Even though I sent that second Isolator already 14 days ago, the company says it hasn't arrived yet (not that I believe so).
I told Electronicsshop.dk that in my opinion they should stop selling their USB Isolators until its safety is proven. But since they don't act, I decided to inform you here.
so it is not a USB AUDIO codec 2.0 device at all (UAC2), but simply a usb 1.1 audio codec device that happens to what? use a USB 2 connector? what? their reply makes not much sense. a USB 2.0 device (480mbit is the usb 2 spec) if promoted for isolating USB 2 audio should be UAC2 (hirez capable) otherwise why bother with it? since updates in the UAC 1.1 or maybe UAC 1.2 spec it is possible to have 24bit/96kHz audio, so their device will not go faster than what is already possible with old connections and new drivers?
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In the case of the USB 2.0 standard, only Hi-Speed USB 2.0 devices run at 480 Mbps. USB Full Speed devices are actually 12 Mbps USB 1.1 products.
I am using a USB 2.0 Hi-Speed 480 Mbps isolator that are down wards compatible with all lower speeds.
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I've read that the Musiland drivers interfere with other isolators using other IC's. But the device frying itself? Not good!
Indeed, not good at all.
In fact it was electronics-shop.dk that advertised this USB Isolator here at diyaudio, and made me buy two of these.
But I guess they don’t like it very much informing them of the risk of fire or a ruined motherboard. Still they keep selling them, even though they must know about the problem, as I sent the Isolator to them for over more then 2 weeks ago.
To my expectation they will also not respond here, even though I did send them the direct link.
I’ve noticed too that they didn’t like it when I mentioned diyaudio to them. Once I did this, the deal of sending me a replace Isolator was off the same day.
Hmm, strange. Have to hide something?
You make up your mind yourself about what the company is really after; let me explain in short.
As written in the first post here, one of the Isolators arrived just damaged. So after having informed them immediately after, I offered to send them a picture, which they indeed wanted. This I sent them together with the description that it looked as if someone tried to open the plastic housing. Then they had me sent the item to them.
When I reminded them after a week if already received, they told me they just had, and accused me that I had tried to open the box, together with some exclamation marks here and there. Then they said they would charge me for handling costs or something.
So I asked them why they had me sent the item anyway, after all they knew in detail about the damage in advance. No answer received however.
Yesterday I saw what they charged me for 'unjustified defect claims'. Guess what? €69,44 for handling; (also note that this Isolator new costs €34,03).
Funny, isn’t it?
Well it gets worse. They say that when I will have paid, they will send me back the (same) damaged Isolator.
Oh well, that's a fine solution, isn't it?
This burned Isolator was meanwhile also sent to them, but I should have waited for an email first they said later.
Now it has gone so far that I first need to pay the bill for the damaged Isolator before I can get back the defect (burned) Isolator. Also defect as it is.
I would say the game is either bullying or to make them pay money for nothing in return.
When you buy something from them be sure to read the small letters. Very much visible they advertise: “14 days money back guarantee”.
That’s nice.
But what do the notes somewhere under your sales conditions say?
“Return Policy: 14 days - from receiving the goods - returns are accepted granted the products has not been taken into use or damaged and a written agreement exists in the form of an email.”
Hmm, so without a written agreement from their side, there is not at all a money back. Well what guarantee do we have then? Certainly not the guarantee suggested on the site, I would say.
Or put differently: it is not just a guarantee, but a guarantee under conditions. Why not used these words then?
Now imagine they didn’t sleep well, do you think you ever get that ‘written agreement’? Oops, now I'm the one bullying.
In fact it was electronics-shop.dk that advertised this USB Isolator here at diyaudio, and made me buy two of these.
But I guess they don’t like it very much informing them of the risk of fire or a ruined motherboard. Still they keep selling them, even though they must know about the problem, as I sent the Isolator to them for over more then 2 weeks ago.
To my expectation they will also not respond here, even though I did send them the direct link.
I’ve noticed too that they didn’t like it when I mentioned diyaudio to them. Once I did this, the deal of sending me a replace Isolator was off the same day.
Hmm, strange. Have to hide something?
You make up your mind yourself about what the company is really after; let me explain in short.
As written in the first post here, one of the Isolators arrived just damaged. So after having informed them immediately after, I offered to send them a picture, which they indeed wanted. This I sent them together with the description that it looked as if someone tried to open the plastic housing. Then they had me sent the item to them.
When I reminded them after a week if already received, they told me they just had, and accused me that I had tried to open the box, together with some exclamation marks here and there. Then they said they would charge me for handling costs or something.
So I asked them why they had me sent the item anyway, after all they knew in detail about the damage in advance. No answer received however.
Yesterday I saw what they charged me for 'unjustified defect claims'. Guess what? €69,44 for handling; (also note that this Isolator new costs €34,03).
Funny, isn’t it?
Well it gets worse. They say that when I will have paid, they will send me back the (same) damaged Isolator.
Oh well, that's a fine solution, isn't it?
This burned Isolator was meanwhile also sent to them, but I should have waited for an email first they said later.
Now it has gone so far that I first need to pay the bill for the damaged Isolator before I can get back the defect (burned) Isolator. Also defect as it is.
I would say the game is either bullying or to make them pay money for nothing in return.
When you buy something from them be sure to read the small letters. Very much visible they advertise: “14 days money back guarantee”.
That’s nice.
But what do the notes somewhere under your sales conditions say?
“Return Policy: 14 days - from receiving the goods - returns are accepted granted the products has not been taken into use or damaged and a written agreement exists in the form of an email.”
Hmm, so without a written agreement from their side, there is not at all a money back. Well what guarantee do we have then? Certainly not the guarantee suggested on the site, I would say.
Or put differently: it is not just a guarantee, but a guarantee under conditions. Why not used these words then?
Now imagine they didn’t sleep well, do you think you ever get that ‘written agreement’? Oops, now I'm the one bullying.
From a legal point, in Denmark, you always have 14 days after you have received the item where you are allowed to return it, no question asked and of course you don't need a written acceptance of this first. The internet shop is obligated to handle all expenses for this.
Iff the god's dosen't work it's the same history.
Iff on the other hand, the shop claims that the send material was fine, and you claim it was broken when you received it, its a matter between the post company and you.
On their homepage I can see they both have low speed USB isolator and high speed, I assume we here are talking about a high speed fellow 😉.
Best regards
Iff the god's dosen't work it's the same history.
Iff on the other hand, the shop claims that the send material was fine, and you claim it was broken when you received it, its a matter between the post company and you.
On their homepage I can see they both have low speed USB isolator and high speed, I assume we here are talking about a high speed fellow 😉.
Best regards
Indeed we are talking about that high speed version.
No, the post company has nothing to do with it. Both USB2ISO's were packed in a small sealed plastic bag.
Blaming the post would perhaps make sense regarding the fact that the metal frame of the Isolator was buckled; but the marks on the plastic housing cannot have anything to do with how the post handled it.
It is not easy to claim an item that is damaged, whether you damaged it, or it was sent like that. How will you proof you received it in that condition?
And about that other burned Isolator, how can you proof if post arrived when you didn't track and trace it (for an item of just €34 this doesn't make much sense)?
Okay, the lady of the post office remembers I brought her that envelope to stamp it for Denmark; that's nice but doesn't proof receipt on their side, does it?
Now suppose I did send it by registered mail, okay there would have been no denial about the receipt.
But what reaction would you expect from them?
Why not something like that it didn't burn at all or that it was just all fine and so they will charge me for unjustified defect claims?
Well, you know the way they act meanwhile.
Nevertheless, I found they made some mistakes here and there and there are inconsistencies in their replies as well.
Meanwhile I sent them a notice of default and gave them a term to return my money.
After that I will inform the police. Not that this all is so exciting.
I have some fine lawyer relatives and perhaps I will show them this case. If it is strong enough there will be a follow up.
It is not about that 70 or 80 euros they tricked out of me, it is a matter of principle.
If it will come that far, they have to consider the risk of high costs, as what these guys charge per hour only, you can buy at least 5 of these Isolators.
Nevertheless I gave the company a possibility to settle. In it they have to make a promise not to treat others like they did in my case.
We'll just see.
No, the post company has nothing to do with it. Both USB2ISO's were packed in a small sealed plastic bag.
Blaming the post would perhaps make sense regarding the fact that the metal frame of the Isolator was buckled; but the marks on the plastic housing cannot have anything to do with how the post handled it.
It is not easy to claim an item that is damaged, whether you damaged it, or it was sent like that. How will you proof you received it in that condition?
And about that other burned Isolator, how can you proof if post arrived when you didn't track and trace it (for an item of just €34 this doesn't make much sense)?
Okay, the lady of the post office remembers I brought her that envelope to stamp it for Denmark; that's nice but doesn't proof receipt on their side, does it?
Now suppose I did send it by registered mail, okay there would have been no denial about the receipt.
But what reaction would you expect from them?
Why not something like that it didn't burn at all or that it was just all fine and so they will charge me for unjustified defect claims?
Well, you know the way they act meanwhile.
Nevertheless, I found they made some mistakes here and there and there are inconsistencies in their replies as well.
Meanwhile I sent them a notice of default and gave them a term to return my money.
After that I will inform the police. Not that this all is so exciting.
I have some fine lawyer relatives and perhaps I will show them this case. If it is strong enough there will be a follow up.
It is not about that 70 or 80 euros they tricked out of me, it is a matter of principle.
If it will come that far, they have to consider the risk of high costs, as what these guys charge per hour only, you can buy at least 5 of these Isolators.
Nevertheless I gave the company a possibility to settle. In it they have to make a promise not to treat others like they did in my case.
We'll just see.
Lucas did you pay with a credit card or some other means?
If you paid by credit card you have recourse with them - just dispute the bill, otherwise I am not too sure what you can do.. In any event good luck!
If you paid by credit card you have recourse with them - just dispute the bill, otherwise I am not too sure what you can do.. In any event good luck!
Thank you for wishing me luck.
It was was paid by creditcard.
Indeed I might dispute the bill, but it will require further action, as the company doesn't reply anymore, whatever it is.
It would just as well have surprised me if they came up with a reaction here too, even though they are aware of these posts.
It usually takes time and energy to get your money back in such situations, on the other hand I cannot allow anyone stealing from me. So sooner or later there will have to be settled something.
I would still like to have some kind of galvanic Isolation between a Musiland 02 and 03 that I hooked up to the pc.
For the short while that one of the Isolators worked until it fried, I thought I could hear the background in music to be a little more silent. Not much, but the impression is enough reason for me to want to have them isolated.
In a Hifi magazine about pc audio I read that many USB hubs have a galvanic Isolation to protect from voltage spikes; is this correct and if so, what hub would be worth buying?
If not, what would you recommand as a working alternative for the Musilands? I'm sorry if this question is perhaps already answered somewhere at this forum.
It was was paid by creditcard.
Indeed I might dispute the bill, but it will require further action, as the company doesn't reply anymore, whatever it is.
It would just as well have surprised me if they came up with a reaction here too, even though they are aware of these posts.
It usually takes time and energy to get your money back in such situations, on the other hand I cannot allow anyone stealing from me. So sooner or later there will have to be settled something.
I would still like to have some kind of galvanic Isolation between a Musiland 02 and 03 that I hooked up to the pc.
For the short while that one of the Isolators worked until it fried, I thought I could hear the background in music to be a little more silent. Not much, but the impression is enough reason for me to want to have them isolated.
In a Hifi magazine about pc audio I read that many USB hubs have a galvanic Isolation to protect from voltage spikes; is this correct and if so, what hub would be worth buying?
If not, what would you recommand as a working alternative for the Musilands? I'm sorry if this question is perhaps already answered somewhere at this forum.
reading specs
You are blaming the electronics shop for providing faulty equipment.
But if you look clearly at the specs, they state clearly that the maximum transfer speed is 12Mbps. And they state that the maximum current output is 400mA.
See also the specs from their site.
Specifications:
USB 2.0 FullSpeed (12MBps)
Data Isolation: 1KV
Power Isolation: 1KV
Power Output: >400 mA output, 5V +/- 10%
If you did some investigation of your own you will see that the musiland needs USB2.0 HighSpeed (480MBps). And that the musiland needs 500mA of current (normal USB spec).
So likely the DC-DC convertor in the isolator is burned up.
Sorry it is not my intention to put you down, but in this particular case it is just reading the specs.
You are blaming the electronics shop for providing faulty equipment.
But if you look clearly at the specs, they state clearly that the maximum transfer speed is 12Mbps. And they state that the maximum current output is 400mA.
See also the specs from their site.
Specifications:
USB 2.0 FullSpeed (12MBps)
Data Isolation: 1KV
Power Isolation: 1KV
Power Output: >400 mA output, 5V +/- 10%
If you did some investigation of your own you will see that the musiland needs USB2.0 HighSpeed (480MBps). And that the musiland needs 500mA of current (normal USB spec).
So likely the DC-DC convertor in the isolator is burned up.
Sorry it is not my intention to put you down, but in this particular case it is just reading the specs.
Hello Koenjer,
About the faulty equipment, please read carefully what I wrote about the subject.
The exterior of the first USB2ISO came out damaged of its sealed plastic bag; so is it not justified to claim this one as faulty indeed?
About the second Isolator, I said that it functioned for some days.
Next to this I warned that the Isolator could burn or ruin your motherboard.
Why this warning?
Several people claimed that this Isolator functions with their Musiland.
This almost certainly implies that they use it the same way I did, be they stupid or not.
In my situation the Isolator burned after a couple of days. Question is what will happen with the other users with a similar application.
Wouldn't you have warned them?
Further I have my doubts if that company is allowed to sell this product like that anyway; after all it is a finished plug and play consumer product. Further, with its USB 2.0, I guess most people have no idea that it may set fire if connected to some usb dac.
That it won't function, hmm, but burn? Wouldn't you call that faulty, the more so given the fact that this is a consumer product?
Don't forget that most people don't even know about Ohm's law, do they? Can they be blamed for that? I guess you can't blame them for not having a background in electronics and digital technique, can you?
Still, they do sell it to them, even without any warning at all.
In my case the Isolator was already burned and sent back, and no sooner then the 10th of this month, just to inform me that I 'should have waited sending it back for their so called written agreement', they let me know that "you do not need to restart PC to work with USB 2.0 Full speed devices. You have a configuration error".
Well, 3 weeks before that, I mailed them: "I connected the Isolator as is explained in the enclosed paper. Nevertheless, I got no sound at first with my Musiland Monitor 02, as where I read at the internet it should. After a restart it worked."
So why not warn me right away that something was wrong, instead of having it ruined first? Or why not tell me right away that this Musiland is not compatible like that?
Would you treat your customer in such way?
About the faulty equipment, please read carefully what I wrote about the subject.
The exterior of the first USB2ISO came out damaged of its sealed plastic bag; so is it not justified to claim this one as faulty indeed?
About the second Isolator, I said that it functioned for some days.
Next to this I warned that the Isolator could burn or ruin your motherboard.
Why this warning?
Several people claimed that this Isolator functions with their Musiland.
This almost certainly implies that they use it the same way I did, be they stupid or not.
In my situation the Isolator burned after a couple of days. Question is what will happen with the other users with a similar application.
Wouldn't you have warned them?
Further I have my doubts if that company is allowed to sell this product like that anyway; after all it is a finished plug and play consumer product. Further, with its USB 2.0, I guess most people have no idea that it may set fire if connected to some usb dac.
That it won't function, hmm, but burn? Wouldn't you call that faulty, the more so given the fact that this is a consumer product?
Don't forget that most people don't even know about Ohm's law, do they? Can they be blamed for that? I guess you can't blame them for not having a background in electronics and digital technique, can you?
Still, they do sell it to them, even without any warning at all.
In my case the Isolator was already burned and sent back, and no sooner then the 10th of this month, just to inform me that I 'should have waited sending it back for their so called written agreement', they let me know that "you do not need to restart PC to work with USB 2.0 Full speed devices. You have a configuration error".
Well, 3 weeks before that, I mailed them: "I connected the Isolator as is explained in the enclosed paper. Nevertheless, I got no sound at first with my Musiland Monitor 02, as where I read at the internet it should. After a restart it worked."
So why not warn me right away that something was wrong, instead of having it ruined first? Or why not tell me right away that this Musiland is not compatible like that?
Would you treat your customer in such way?
I was just looking at your post. I've been working on the 1st High Speed (480Mb/s) USB isolator. We just went to market and expect the commercial products to hit the market in late 2015. See below. I'm not sure what you bought but it probably was a couple of HV caps with a FET that wasn't biased correctly.
Isolator
Isolator
Do you use a copper cable to connect your A & B?
If Corning.com with its USB3 glas connection would power each side separately, the power connection (copper) for the the sink could be skipped.. and we would have a perfect 😀
Hp
It appears that they are a small, specialty fabless semiconductor company. Their product is, or will be, chips that people can use to build USB High-speed isolation devices, or used to incorporate isolated USB-HS interfaces into other devices.
I'm curious though about what the corning cable is actually using for its electronics. It sounds like it could leapfrog the Silanna offering.
My understanding is that USB3 isolation is actually pretty "easy" because USB3 uses separate pairs for Tx and Rx. The complication for USB2 is that there is a single pair for signaling that is shared between transmitter and receiver, and the method for switching off at HS rates adds a lot of complication. Ordinarily backwards compatibility for USB3 devices is achieved by using a single copper pair for USB2. The corning device obviously isn't doing that. So what is it doing? Is it a single chip? two chips? Which ones?
Look at USB 2.0 High-Speed Isolator for electical isolation of the USB port: ALLDAQ while may they use the Silanna chip 😀
Hp
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