If I raise the pivot of my arm so it's a bit more than horizontal, HF rich sounds like trumpet take on a beautiful "real" quality. On some records, say old Herb Alpert, there's no downside, it just sounds great. Unfortunately, other records, say male vocals, seem to get a broadened sound stage, lack solidity, and aren't entirely satisfactory. My question is this- does changing the pivot height mostly change the frequency response, or is something else involved? My ears say there's more to it, but my ears have been fooled more than once.
Hi Conrad,
Could the difference you are hearing be related to how the stylus contacts the vinyl? I believe the optimal postitin to the vinyl is perpendicular (from all 360 degrees). Maybe this is what changes and now that the stylus might be up to one degree off (or more), it contacts the vinyl in a skewed sort of fashion. It sounds better in some instances and worse in others so I would think that it is not optimal. The enhancements you are hearing just may work with this skewing because the areas where the stylus contacts the vinyl differently are exaggerated maybe. On others, the exaggerated parts aren't sonically pleasing. I don't think the frequency responce changes but rather the focus of the contact.
I guess the fine setup details on a TT really do make a big difference. Does any of this thought make any sense to you?
I was six when Herb and the Tiajuana Brass were really cooking. I remember that I loved them even at that age! And the big show on TV was "The FBI." Where have all those years gone?
What is VTA?
How has the Fall been so far up by you? Absolutely beautiful here!
Regards//Keith
Could the difference you are hearing be related to how the stylus contacts the vinyl? I believe the optimal postitin to the vinyl is perpendicular (from all 360 degrees). Maybe this is what changes and now that the stylus might be up to one degree off (or more), it contacts the vinyl in a skewed sort of fashion. It sounds better in some instances and worse in others so I would think that it is not optimal. The enhancements you are hearing just may work with this skewing because the areas where the stylus contacts the vinyl differently are exaggerated maybe. On others, the exaggerated parts aren't sonically pleasing. I don't think the frequency responce changes but rather the focus of the contact.
I guess the fine setup details on a TT really do make a big difference. Does any of this thought make any sense to you?
I was six when Herb and the Tiajuana Brass were really cooking. I remember that I loved them even at that age! And the big show on TV was "The FBI." Where have all those years gone?
What is VTA?
How has the Fall been so far up by you? Absolutely beautiful here!
Regards//Keith
The more I think about it, the more this makes sense. Also, if you skew the stylus for instance, let's say the higher part is further away than perpendicular and the lower part (tip) is closer than perpendicular, you would also have a timing issue (slight) and maybe that is what you are hearing when you say the soundstage gets bigger. Just something I thought of that might explain it! Ouch, my brain is getting too much exercise!
Regards//Keith
Regards//Keith
VTA is vertical tracking angle. It will very from record-to-record and the shape of your stylus (and resolution of the support gear) will have an effect on how much differnce it can make.
dave
dave
That's exactly what I was trying to say! All I had to do was put VTA?
Like Miss Emily LaTella from "Saturday Night Live" fame said....."Never Mind!"
Conrad already said it with only three letters. I love efficiency! But now I have nothing to add!
Thanks Dave!
Regards//Keith
Like Miss Emily LaTella from "Saturday Night Live" fame said....."Never Mind!"
Conrad already said it with only three letters. I love efficiency! But now I have nothing to add!
Thanks Dave!
Regards//Keith
The most important thing is SRA (Stylus Rake Angle) and not VTA although they are related.
This depends highly on the type of cartridge that yo use. Some manufacturers have their stylus designed in such a way to conform to the cutting lathe angle and will not be seen as perpendicular to the record.
In my experience, these types of cartridges, i.e. Zyx, Clearaudio, have the best immunity to surface noise, and at the same time, sounds best in my system.
This depends highly on the type of cartridge that yo use. Some manufacturers have their stylus designed in such a way to conform to the cutting lathe angle and will not be seen as perpendicular to the record.
In my experience, these types of cartridges, i.e. Zyx, Clearaudio, have the best immunity to surface noise, and at the same time, sounds best in my system.
I think I remember why I gave up audio years ago. Tonight I tried to record some waveforms to listen and compare, changing nothing but VTA (and SRA- they're quite firmly attached to each other). Problem was, I couldn't duplicate what I had heard previously. Like every other effect I've tried to pin down, the minute I started chasing it, it vanished in thin air. I almost think weather, how much sleep I've had, and what I ate for dinner, and how relaxed I am, affect my perception of sound as much as anything else.
I'll try again at some point. What I wanted to do was post links to a couple files of maybe 20 seconds, at various VTAs, and see what others thought. For the moment I'm going with the theory that high fidelity exists entirely as a figment of my imagination.
I'll try again at some point. What I wanted to do was post links to a couple files of maybe 20 seconds, at various VTAs, and see what others thought. For the moment I'm going with the theory that high fidelity exists entirely as a figment of my imagination.
It is amazing that as I get older that I find such wonder in the details. They are truly what is really interesting in almost everything in life. And this too! Thank you gentlemen!
Arnold, are these type cartridges MM and/or MC and are they all expensive? Do they sound good in lesser expensive TTs as well?
Regards//Keith
Arnold, are these type cartridges MM and/or MC and are they all expensive? Do they sound good in lesser expensive TTs as well?
Regards//Keith
The characteristic I described was for Zyx which is MC and Clearaudio leaf-bodied MC line. They're over $500.KP11520 said:
The Clearaudio Sigma (older line) is also designed the same way and I used this on my JVC turntable, and worked extremely well.
I do not bother much with SRA/VTA, I make sure that they're setup in parallel to the record surface, and I enjoy the music. Not much tweaking, and it's waste of music playing time.
😀
KP11520 said:
Stylus shape is extremely important IME. If you're looking for an inexpensive cartridge with an advanced stylus shape, you might try the Audio-Technica AT440MLa. It's still being sold for $90 online, although some dealers have raised the price to $199 again. The 440MLa has a micro-line stylus.
arnoldc said:
Same here, set it and forget it. It's important to optimize first though before forgetting about it.
Hi Gents,
I looked at the AT and I see some like the new "A" and some prefer the older version but most say both are bright! I have a brand new Shure M97eX and that seems to be the one most compared to the AT and vice versa. It seems most people prefer one over the other and the opinions are split close to 50/50.
Amazon has the AT440ML in stock still in case anyone wants to try to get it and many others have the AT440MLa. Also, you can't beat the price and the constant rave about the trackability. Funny, the AT and Shure are priced the same. That is a bargain either way!
I don't think I will get it for now, I would rather do other mods on my Tuner or Amp and also finish my CD Player before buying a second cartridge. Oh, but if money was endless!
Thank you for the education, especially about the SRA/VTA as when I come back around to the TT upgrades/Mods, I will certainly use this info to help make sure I am pursuing the improvements with the highest impact!
But what about Conrad's question? It can't be the brand of tissues he is using that day that makes the difference. If so, which brand is best (Kleenex, Puffs)?
Regards//Keith
I looked at the AT and I see some like the new "A" and some prefer the older version but most say both are bright! I have a brand new Shure M97eX and that seems to be the one most compared to the AT and vice versa. It seems most people prefer one over the other and the opinions are split close to 50/50.
Amazon has the AT440ML in stock still in case anyone wants to try to get it and many others have the AT440MLa. Also, you can't beat the price and the constant rave about the trackability. Funny, the AT and Shure are priced the same. That is a bargain either way!
I don't think I will get it for now, I would rather do other mods on my Tuner or Amp and also finish my CD Player before buying a second cartridge. Oh, but if money was endless!
Thank you for the education, especially about the SRA/VTA as when I come back around to the TT upgrades/Mods, I will certainly use this info to help make sure I am pursuing the improvements with the highest impact!
But what about Conrad's question? It can't be the brand of tissues he is using that day that makes the difference. If so, which brand is best (Kleenex, Puffs)?
Regards//Keith
A friend of mine recorded a CD on a Sony professional recorder, through his turntable system (Oracle V, Graham, Classe phono stage). There were four moving magnets used; V15-V, M97HE, Grado XTZ with Prestige Blue stylus, and AT-440ML. Most people liked the V15 best. He and I both preferred the 440ML. I ranked the V15 second and the 97HE last, but they all sounded pretty good.
Yup, read that excellent article a while back. Rest assured the changes I'm talking about are on the order of a mm or more. My last effort suggested that parallel is as good a place as any, but at some point I did have a very different sounding alignment, and now I'm thinking maybe the angular alignment was off a bit- can never remember which is azimuth, zenith, pitch, roll, yaw... What's called azimuth on a tape head, and should be on a cartridge, isn't.
Hi Conrad,
The frustrating part is that it seems that this has gone around full circle. I don't even know if there is an answer. I was curious when I read your post and started learning more about this. But now, I don't even want to know at this point! This is a defense mechanism to preserve my sanity! (not that I have any, I am a member here after all!)
It's almost like splitting hairs doesn't make sense because it isn't universal across your vinyl collection. Maybe this fits into the "Grenade" category where just getting it real close is good enough!
But I will be watching to see what points and counterpoints arise!
Regards//KP
The frustrating part is that it seems that this has gone around full circle. I don't even know if there is an answer. I was curious when I read your post and started learning more about this. But now, I don't even want to know at this point! This is a defense mechanism to preserve my sanity! (not that I have any, I am a member here after all!)
It's almost like splitting hairs doesn't make sense because it isn't universal across your vinyl collection. Maybe this fits into the "Grenade" category where just getting it real close is good enough!
But I will be watching to see what points and counterpoints arise!
Regards//KP
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