Given that VW admitted to 11 million vehicles being affected I think it is clear that other diesel cars from VW Group are affected besides the Beetle.
I think it's any vehicle with the 2.0L diesel (includes Jetta, Golf, Beetle, Audi A3, and Passat as far as I'm aware).
I'm not aware of chip-tuning, but not surprised to hear about it. I hope you're right.
I'm not aware of chip-tuning, but not surprised to hear about it. I hope you're right.
Have a read here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chip_tuning
I find more important the "planned obsolescence" part of the auto industry.
Have a look here at how old cars were tested for long term reliability:
De ce sunt masinile vechi atat de fiabile? gBntxd_TVvD - 4TuningTV
Nowadays they invest lots of cash in technology to calculate the needed materials as cheap as possible to keep the car running just as long as it's covered by warranty. They can predict the failure pretty accurate and calculate the materials for that. Then they ask a lot of money for replacements.
That way they make sure you get a new car in 2-3 years time.
But hey...we have to keep buying to keep the economy rolling, right?
With regards to chip tuning:
BMW produce a 2L TD engine which comes in versions with 116, 136 and 168hp (not sure about the latest 198hp motor).
The only difference is the software on the ECU chip.
BMW produce a 2L TD engine which comes in versions with 116, 136 and 168hp (not sure about the latest 198hp motor).
The only difference is the software on the ECU chip.
Yes,
I presume that the ECU detects the conditions for emissions testing and activates a more conservative fuel injection map to meet the EPA demands. When that is not needed it defaults to the more "sporty" map.
If this is the case, then it would translate into a more reliable engine if the more conservative map is kept, but the car might seem more sluggish after this mod.
Even so, it's a bad fix as the owners also payed for the sporty feel of the car, not for low emissions. I don't think the affected owners can have it both ways, keep the same engine response and have the proper emissions. Anyway, there's gonna be half a million sad owners.
I presume that the ECU detects the conditions for emissions testing and activates a more conservative fuel injection map to meet the EPA demands. When that is not needed it defaults to the more "sporty" map.
If this is the case, then it would translate into a more reliable engine if the more conservative map is kept, but the car might seem more sluggish after this mod.
Even so, it's a bad fix as the owners also payed for the sporty feel of the car, not for low emissions. I don't think the affected owners can have it both ways, keep the same engine response and have the proper emissions. Anyway, there's gonna be half a million sad owners.
these may differ in the provision of the intercooler. It might be present/absent, or smaller/bigger.
So, what's wrong with that ?
It's the emission authority that should devise a test which is fool-proof.
The responsibility does not lie with the manufacturer, operating in a market where each buck saved is millions of dollars.
If I make use of a loop-hole in the tax system, nobody should point a blaming finger at me.
Instead, they should ask themselves why that BS artist with zero common sense, has such a fancy title and financial compensation as head of the IRS.
VW manufactured a car, it passed the test, period !
Typical behavior of a/the government, blame it on the bad guy.
I'm a BMW driver myself and I can assure you not all components of the engine are the same. In this case I'm talking about the 3L but I would be surprised if it wasn't the same for the 2L.
The legendary king of cheating (in racing) Smokey Yunick would be proud of them.
AS someone above said most of these emissions requirements are the dreams of idiotic legislators who have no idea what is possible. Who is surprised by this? Only someone with the same mindset as the legislators.
AS absurd is the rush to turbocharging as a means to increased "efficiency", the kind of efficiency that results in lower emissions and better fuel economy. Anyone who has ever owned a turbocharged car knows this is ridiculous. A turbo has efficiencies but they sure don't result in better fuel economy when driven by a human being. The computer simulations can get them to perform to these arbitrary standards but what use is that?
Of course we should expect the lowest emissions possible but much of this is political foolishness in this age of "green". Who can be the smuggest environmentalist of all? IT'S ME, NO IT'S ME and so on
AS someone above said most of these emissions requirements are the dreams of idiotic legislators who have no idea what is possible. Who is surprised by this? Only someone with the same mindset as the legislators.
AS absurd is the rush to turbocharging as a means to increased "efficiency", the kind of efficiency that results in lower emissions and better fuel economy. Anyone who has ever owned a turbocharged car knows this is ridiculous. A turbo has efficiencies but they sure don't result in better fuel economy when driven by a human being. The computer simulations can get them to perform to these arbitrary standards but what use is that?
Of course we should expect the lowest emissions possible but much of this is political foolishness in this age of "green". Who can be the smuggest environmentalist of all? IT'S ME, NO IT'S ME and so on
Talking about this being a move from Piech to discard Winterkorn is rubbish.
First indications emerged in September 2014, long before in Spring 2015 Piech lost his battle against Winterkorn.
Apart that, no, it's not only about passing the test. Usual emission regulations clearly state that it's not allowed to tune the car just for a test.
This is the EU regulation:
It's just that tests for real driving emissions are not in place but planned:
https://www.avl.com/real-driving-em...mode=view&p_p_col_id=column-2&p_p_col_count=1
First indications emerged in September 2014, long before in Spring 2015 Piech lost his battle against Winterkorn.
Apart that, no, it's not only about passing the test. Usual emission regulations clearly state that it's not allowed to tune the car just for a test.
This is the EU regulation:
It's just that tests for real driving emissions are not in place but planned:
https://www.avl.com/real-driving-em...mode=view&p_p_col_id=column-2&p_p_col_count=1
Last edited:
Wrong. All modern Diesel engines are turbo engines... so they differ in boost, probably intercooler AND ECU.
The trend to diesel engines for Diesels is nothing new btw... what works in trucks is as good in a pass car engine, only on a much smaller scale.
Turbos are sized to provide maximum torque and not maximum horsepower, improving efficiency along the way.
Last edited:
This engine in its 116 and 136hp guises was used by the Rover 75.
To get it up to 168hp all you have to do is to send your ECU off to be reprogrammed.
Between 116hp and 136hp there might not be any kind of hardware differences as the increase is not that much, but between 116hp and 168hp they surely upped something. It might even have a stiffer gearbox to sustain the extra torque. For sure it must have a larger intercooler.
But indeed, you can have it remapped to 168hp, just that you might go through a few gearboxes in a 2 year span.
This is not true.
While the spare parts are the same (all from the 168hp version), the parts in the different versions in new cars are different, especially the pistons.
Here is a link to an engineer from BMW, who explains the differences (Sorry, german only)
Ein paar Infos über BMW Motoren - Hatzer.at
From there
- The 124er is more favorable because it can be manufactured as a single still stamp casting because the copper content is less than 1%. That's no longer with the other two. The advantage of the stamp casting is that there are no lost form
- The 148er is produced by centrifugal casting. The production time is longer, the follow-consuming.
- The 174 has 2% copper and 6% of chromium - which is with Flüssiglegieren nothing. This is a wrought alloy and the piston itself is forged. This makes the piston expensive - for spare parts, the purchase price is rather secondary, because there the cost of storage over time are the problem.
Last edited:
Please leave all comments about politics out of the discussion. Thank You.
WOW Jacco. That's amoral and dishonest. VW did not use a loophole, they deliberately cheated on the test. No test is foolproof nor cheat proof. VW flat out lied, cheated and deceived. To put the blame here on someone else is reprehensible. I'm shocked by your comments. No humor.
Wow jogi59, thank you for this link. Luckily I do understand German and I think this explains perfectly the difference between the engines. What you see on the outside is maybe the same, on the inside however ...
Geez, you would think it's a mortal sin.
I loved the VW Cabrio we had 15 years ago -- except when it rained, because it would hydro-plane no matter what kind of tires we had put on, and oh, how about the time the shifter became detached (fortunately in first gear). Three sons = 3 clutches.
We used the 100,000 mile drive train warranty so frequently that the service manager knew us by first name. The head mechanic quit/retired. We asked that the shifter parts be handed over to us for examination by a metallurgist I knew in the steel biz, but the dealer refused. The car never made it to 60,000 miles and was hauled away on a flat-bed.
I loved the VW Cabrio we had 15 years ago -- except when it rained, because it would hydro-plane no matter what kind of tires we had put on, and oh, how about the time the shifter became detached (fortunately in first gear). Three sons = 3 clutches.
We used the 100,000 mile drive train warranty so frequently that the service manager knew us by first name. The head mechanic quit/retired. We asked that the shifter parts be handed over to us for examination by a metallurgist I knew in the steel biz, but the dealer refused. The car never made it to 60,000 miles and was hauled away on a flat-bed.
It is, precisely. It can be forgiven by contrition, good works and restitution. And that is what VW will have to do.
Well, as a present owner of a 2015 Golf Sport wagon TDI. I am kinda numb right now. Just left the VW dealer asking questions which they could not answer
of course. I had to leave when I asked if the performance would change if my
car has to have the chip changed and the dealer said, no.
of course. I had to leave when I asked if the performance would change if my
car has to have the chip changed and the dealer said, no.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.