Nice Helmuth, also the first picture on Google search when you lookup Visaton Ti100 🙂
The wife laughed seeing yours in the snow, uttering something like... the lengths you guys go to... 😉
The wife laughed seeing yours in the snow, uttering something like... the lengths you guys go to... 😉
If they sound as good as they look you have a real treat there. I'm only trying to come up with a simple 1.7cf 3 way, that midrange makes it tricky. I may just go with an 8 or 10" aluminum woofer two way and 12db crossover. The tweeter cutout hole is too high for a two way, I could mount one on a blank and cover the tweeter hole. Realistic Mach 10 box. I really don't like the lack of full sound from the source with a bookshelf and sub box in the middle. I may even put a woofer and crossover in the box and seal the 8" hole, then set the Pro LX-550's on top.
For review, the Mach 10 boxes originally had an 8" driver, 10" passive radiator, and phenolic ring paper semi dome tweeter. Tried it last night with 10", a semi-famous Goldwood GM85/8 mid, and the oem tweeter. Bass is really nice and full, love it, but the mids and highs are too sassy and thin. The mid has no bandpass, only a 14uf electrolytic, the tweeter a 4 uf tweeter, both caps must be 15 or 20 years old.
Was not happy with the mids and up.
For review, the Mach 10 boxes originally had an 8" driver, 10" passive radiator, and phenolic ring paper semi dome tweeter. Tried it last night with 10", a semi-famous Goldwood GM85/8 mid, and the oem tweeter. Bass is really nice and full, love it, but the mids and highs are too sassy and thin. The mid has no bandpass, only a 14uf electrolytic, the tweeter a 4 uf tweeter, both caps must be 15 or 20 years old.
Was not happy with the mids and up.
Yeah those will stress your ears and see why, but not surprising, is the way RS did things to maximize profit. Back 30+ years ago many friends would talk about replacing their RS speaker for something better, more expensive, describing them as you have. I'd suggest to them to allow me to rebuild the crossovers, sometimes moving driver placement or replacing those mids/ tweets after they've bled the magic smoke from them with an under powered amp during a house party a few days earlier. Once explained how it happened and what can be done, normally saving them hundreds in the process, I would scrap all their ideas one by one.
Typically thinking that an extra 25w/ch would be amazingly louder or that new smaller cone tech would make a 6.5" sound better than a 10-12" for loud room filling sound 🙄
Half would hit a local store and on a whim bought what they wanted regardless. They had the itch, we've all been there 😉 Knowing one another, the one that thought it through not only saved many hundreds, ended up with the better system, all agreed to one degree or another. Normally that decision was based on some glorious reviews in SR/A mags and the idiots at the stores with their authoritative stance. (sorry I have to laugh)
Sadly now they would be stuck with their purchases that were required to last for years to come, says WAF!
IMHO the best thing you can do is get a good (enough) calibrated mic like an UMIK-1 or EMM6, various free software like ARTA and REW and measure what you have. There is a steep learning curve to this but is an indispensable tool for little $. From there we can choose what can stay or not. Will also give us the insight required to replace with what would be a good match. Or dispense with it all and make new with old and having the satisfaction of knowing what it's limitations are and why it sounds so good.
Mike
I have at least made it to where I can tolerate it well enough to listen and evaluate. Before the woofer and mid coil it hissed like a snake. Yuk awful. Now by changing the mid driver's 20 year old 20uf electrolytic cap with a new 12uf electro and wound up a .33 mh, I got the mid out of the breakdown at about 10k, and the highs are now very clear and ring well but still too thin and piercing. I need a 1 mh coil for the woofer, I could only come up with a .6 and it gets way too high, mudds up the mids with too much mid bass and sassy mids from the woofer's top end.
It's an experiment, I grabbed a woofer out of an old box. The cone is "paper" thin, and is no good, except for bongos. But this as is, brings the brass timbre out of the mid cymbal taps like no speaker I have heard in the $200 ea and down price.
Add in, the Mach 10 home brew is much too directional. Maybe a smaller higher quality mid would help. It's much louder than the Linaeum, but I'll gladly take the quality, the amp has power to spare. So I too chirped in how much better the mid is with at least a 6db bandpass filter.
I put my Linaeum Pro LX550's back on and went ahhhhhhhh. 😀
It's an experiment, I grabbed a woofer out of an old box. The cone is "paper" thin, and is no good, except for bongos. But this as is, brings the brass timbre out of the mid cymbal taps like no speaker I have heard in the $200 ea and down price.
Add in, the Mach 10 home brew is much too directional. Maybe a smaller higher quality mid would help. It's much louder than the Linaeum, but I'll gladly take the quality, the amp has power to spare. So I too chirped in how much better the mid is with at least a 6db bandpass filter.
I put my Linaeum Pro LX550's back on and went ahhhhhhhh. 😀
Last edited:
From what I am studying, I think I may be best off for wide dispersion with a 3 inch midrange, and I ain't findin much in my price range. I have looked at using these two full range speakers with a stuffed rear chamber. The Fountek even though an aluminum cone, does not show any significant peaks or high end breakup.
The Visaton is smoother across the plot until above 10khz, I plan to cross at 5 or 6khz. I do wonder if the desire for a brighter sounding midrange will favor the aluminum cone ?
Fountek FE85 3" Full Range Driver 296-717
Visaton FRS8-8 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm 292-524
The Visaton is smoother across the plot until above 10khz, I plan to cross at 5 or 6khz. I do wonder if the desire for a brighter sounding midrange will favor the aluminum cone ?
Fountek FE85 3" Full Range Driver 296-717
Visaton FRS8-8 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm 292-524
I'm also going to try using a pingpong ball section held in place by a 2mm CF rod spider (like with the polycarb tweeters) to get better dispersion. I am getting severe beaming with a Goldwood 5 1/4" Heavy Duty mid, I suppose by calculation, starting at ~ 3500 hz. I was thinking using the outside of the ball at a point that would make reflections off the cone, but I see all the lenses in use use the inside of the ball section.
By the math, any 5 1/4 inch mid would beam at that freq.
By the math, any 5 1/4 inch mid would beam at that freq.
largely true depending on where it breaks up. A 4 inch would get you to maybe 5.5kHz
im waiting my bonus until i buy me a pair of Ti100. I use the AL130 8 and G20SC and find them as good quality as you would expect at the price. AL130 M version initially interested me but it doesnt gn alot higher than the standard AL130. Thats where the Ti100 is perfect if not for the fleaWatt type user
im waiting my bonus until i buy me a pair of Ti100. I use the AL130 8 and G20SC and find them as good quality as you would expect at the price. AL130 M version initially interested me but it doesnt gn alot higher than the standard AL130. Thats where the Ti100 is perfect if not for the fleaWatt type user
Last edited:
This 3 way thing is tricky. The midrange driver needs to be capable of producing and evenly dispersing 200 to about 5000 hz. I don't think it's going to happen very well in my price range. My best bet now seems to match a woofer to run sealed in both 1.7cf Mach 10 boxes, stuff it moderately, and cap the rest of the driver holes.
Run it from the sub output on the receiver and set my best bookshelf speakers on top of the cabinets. Then I'm out of this jam.
Run it from the sub output on the receiver and set my best bookshelf speakers on top of the cabinets. Then I'm out of this jam.
I think you are completely over thinking things. You are not going to do well trying to shoehorn drivers into predetermined ultra wide band xover points without accepting the set of compromises that come along with that choice.
Many 3" fullrange drivers have limited efficiency and power handling. If use them > 300 Hz, xmax does not need to be high though.
Perhaps you should consider the Monacor SPH-30X, which has decent efficiency and power handling and a nice kevlar cone, which has both good stiffness and damping. And besides that, the kevlar just looks awesome 😉
Perhaps you should consider the Monacor SPH-30X, which has decent efficiency and power handling and a nice kevlar cone, which has both good stiffness and damping. And besides that, the kevlar just looks awesome 😉
Well, the subwoofer output has it's problems, the upper audible sub freqs, 50hz and up are a make-do summed from both channels. I loose some program integrity like that. I'd really be better off to try to put a coil on each box and use that for the low end, having each channel's lows on the side they belong and the subwoofer to assist with what it is really meant for, ultra lows. Then I'd have to run the Pro LX-550's through a 200hz capacitor to balance the spread.
The Fountek is around 90db, the Visaton I remember about 86db. Seems so many people want to drop the midrange by 3db anyway so the job is done without components.
I just need to sew the sub woofer and real woofer to the bookshelf speakers and see how it goes.
The Fountek is around 90db, the Visaton I remember about 86db. Seems so many people want to drop the midrange by 3db anyway so the job is done without components.
I just need to sew the sub woofer and real woofer to the bookshelf speakers and see how it goes.
Wow, good news. I had been whipping up a make do guesswork crossover and came up with a funky sounding thing that sounded like Sade was singing into a coffee can and the drummer was beating on the cymbals with a snake.
I dug through the parts bin and constructed the proper value components for a 1200-5000 6db three way and now it's great. The crossover is DEFINITELY a critical critter. This has me confident in pushing out a bit more bux for a better set of drivers and a serious 12db crossover. I am sorry I hadn't noticed how good a set of bookshelf speakers and 8 inch sub crossed at 200hz isn't. Going back to all audible frequencies generated on the same baffle sure sums the content better.
This is for my use, I do not intend to make a company.
I dug through the parts bin and constructed the proper value components for a 1200-5000 6db three way and now it's great. The crossover is DEFINITELY a critical critter. This has me confident in pushing out a bit more bux for a better set of drivers and a serious 12db crossover. I am sorry I hadn't noticed how good a set of bookshelf speakers and 8 inch sub crossed at 200hz isn't. Going back to all audible frequencies generated on the same baffle sure sums the content better.
This is for my use, I do not intend to make a company.
Last edited:
So, how does the speaker tweeker gang think about two of these 4 ohm drivers in series to get an 85db "flat" midrange array ? Should I use my mic to set them at an angle to blend the pattern ? I think that may be tricky, and my real reason for a 3 inch midrange is dispersion. This one, bless Visaton has a disperson chart, already excellent as a single, but these 3 inch drivers seem to mostly sell in 82db or so.
Visaton FRS8-4 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 4 Ohm 292-522
Visaton FRS8-4 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 4 Ohm 292-522
I have used and currently using the visaton dome mids
very nice sounding mid.. not that harsh "metal" sound for sure..
smoother than the dayton rs52 and much easier to work with never measure the distortion
but after I fix this one dented dome I might
warning that plastic guard /phase plug is worthless even against nerf balls!
I can tell you its some very thin titanium
i hope i can ease the dome back out with no cracking!!
but i do like them for a dome mid.
very nice sounding mid.. not that harsh "metal" sound for sure..
smoother than the dayton rs52 and much easier to work with never measure the distortion
but after I fix this one dented dome I might
warning that plastic guard /phase plug is worthless even against nerf balls!
I can tell you its some very thin titanium
i hope i can ease the dome back out with no cracking!!
but i do like them for a dome mid.
Some really cheap ones here 😱
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300957646391
May dissapear when seller Discover his error
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300957646391
May dissapear when seller Discover his error
Last edited:
I can't drive that driver, so I'll settle for my modified Goldwod GM85/8. I ended up opening the closed back midrange on three sides, found a plastic bowel a bit larger than 1/2 coconut, machined some screw slots and fluff filled it with no-itch fiberglass.
That made it into a whole new midrange driver. Since it can can be used to over 10khz, I crossed it at 8khz. Fantastic, clear mids, and unbelievable realistic highs like with cymbals sounding very brassy not hissy. I paired a Goldwood GT510 silk dome tweeter with it. Cheap, but VERY nice for the price. I think the 4 inch mid driver handles the cymbal crashes better than a small one inch tweeter so I put the "heavy" load on the mid driver and mainly use the tweeter for harmonics.
I ended up needing a -2db Lpad for the mid, a bit too bright and overbearing. Nice fit, it's getting better with every test and mod. No more sealed back mid drivers, they resonate and color too much.
That made it into a whole new midrange driver. Since it can can be used to over 10khz, I crossed it at 8khz. Fantastic, clear mids, and unbelievable realistic highs like with cymbals sounding very brassy not hissy. I paired a Goldwood GT510 silk dome tweeter with it. Cheap, but VERY nice for the price. I think the 4 inch mid driver handles the cymbal crashes better than a small one inch tweeter so I put the "heavy" load on the mid driver and mainly use the tweeter for harmonics.
I ended up needing a -2db Lpad for the mid, a bit too bright and overbearing. Nice fit, it's getting better with every test and mod. No more sealed back mid drivers, they resonate and color too much.
Hi,
That isn't the way to do it. If your going to spend money
on decent drivers you need a decent properly designed x/o.
3 ways are notoriously difficult to get right, and basically a
beginner hasn't a hope in hell of getting anywhere near a
good published design - which is by far the best way
to spend your hard earned cash and effectively use
the time and effort you put into building a speaker.
I recommend these 3 ways :
Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers
rgds, sreten.
I's ok now, just a little bit of tuning left. I plan to experiment with higher freq xovers, I have good results with my 8khz cross to the tweeter. I think a tweeter should only be used to supply the overtones, and the larger 3 to 4 inch mid driver and be designed to better handle the fundamental midrange freqs.
I'm getting more body to the bells, cymbals, vibes etc. this way. Maybe the current trend to cross at 3 to 5khz comes from tweeter designs better paired with a two way system.
I'm getting more body to the bells, cymbals, vibes etc. this way. Maybe the current trend to cross at 3 to 5khz comes from tweeter designs better paired with a two way system.
By the way, that poly-mica stuff Goldwood is using for the GM85/8 cone is making a nice clear midrange sound. Even better after opening the back with a Dremel grinder. The paper and Kevlar I tested made a softer sort of muted sound. My original want was to experiment with metal dome midrange drivers to see if I could get that old vaccume tube warm sound out and have a more natural sound. I'm satisfied with poly-mica so far.
That colored sound is great for the musicians, it gives them a unique sound.
And anyone trying to carve with a Dremel should use safety goggles, I prefer a no fog full face shield. I tried to get by with using my eyeglasses because of fogging. This one got me a sliver of steel in my cornea. I thought it was only a scratch but after it got increasingly painful, 1 1/2 days later I found it 1/2 way between my iris edge and pupil, straight in.
The surgery to remove it was painless. A very pleasant surprise. Then she had to drill the rust stain out, yes DRILL it out. That was painless also and I will have a full recovery, no vision problem. So don't play macho with the eyes, get particles out fast before they stain or cause infection.
That colored sound is great for the musicians, it gives them a unique sound.
And anyone trying to carve with a Dremel should use safety goggles, I prefer a no fog full face shield. I tried to get by with using my eyeglasses because of fogging. This one got me a sliver of steel in my cornea. I thought it was only a scratch but after it got increasingly painful, 1 1/2 days later I found it 1/2 way between my iris edge and pupil, straight in.
The surgery to remove it was painless. A very pleasant surprise. Then she had to drill the rust stain out, yes DRILL it out. That was painless also and I will have a full recovery, no vision problem. So don't play macho with the eyes, get particles out fast before they stain or cause infection.
Last edited:
The poly-mica midrange is just perfect for me. Not too bright, not too warm. It's really a personal thing and the manufacturers can only collect the average preference as what is "best".
Some people do not like it for a woofer, they seem to think it is a bit bright. But I do see it as a good choice for a small driver, 3 to 5 inches. I have a 5 1/4" poly-mica woofer on my Sony SS-B1000's and it makes a warm sound. So it may be all in the crossover, or in the case of the B1000 a probable lack of one, I haven't opened it.
And I'll toss in that their poly-carb tweeter is a very accurate well dispersed one, and does reproduce metallic percussion instruments well.
Some people do not like it for a woofer, they seem to think it is a bit bright. But I do see it as a good choice for a small driver, 3 to 5 inches. I have a 5 1/4" poly-mica woofer on my Sony SS-B1000's and it makes a warm sound. So it may be all in the crossover, or in the case of the B1000 a probable lack of one, I haven't opened it.
And I'll toss in that their poly-carb tweeter is a very accurate well dispersed one, and does reproduce metallic percussion instruments well.
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.