Visaton B200 vs FR125S in yet another FR+W OB

[johninCR]

One other thing I want to discuss is the rising response on drivers like the B200. Something you have to take into consideration is that with OB you put the rear wave into play too and on the backside of the driver above a certain point you have a response that decreases with frequency. I find that this goes a long way toward flattening the response of a rising response driver when you put it on OB. In addition, by adding a thin layer of open cell foam and/or polyfill batting you can increase the downward slope of the backside response.

I believe that you can get up to 6db of benefit from this, since it's the same as another driver (double cone area) plus same excursion (needs double power using 2 drivers). Out of phase doesn't matter in the higher frequencies due to the short wavelengths. Out of phase just results in response ripples which are inherent with OB's.

 

[westend]

Very interesting posts, John, regarding the upcoming 15" driver and your take on the OB frequency characteristics. I'll be watching for your review of the Iris. My ears substantiate your theories on the OB rise (this from my experiments with full range drivers in the last couple of monthes).

 

[Paul Ebert]

So, OB causes the response to drop as frequency goes up (at some point). I like the sound of that, since the rise around 700 hz on the B200 is my main concern with it.

I'll be very interested in the Hawthorne driver.

I wonder if two of the Delta 15LFs (per channel) in a W or H frame would be enough for my occasional Pink Floyd cranking...

Please keep us informed about the Hawthorne 15" and iris.

Oh, and I assume that the open cell or batting covers the backside of the OB?

Thanks.

Paul Ebert

 

[johninCR]

So, OB causes the response to drop as frequency goes up (at some point). I like the sound of that, since the rise around 700 hz on the B200 is my main concern with it.

I wouldn't word it that way. With OB the rear output of the driver is definitely part of the listening position response. At some point, the rear output of any full ranger driver decreases with frequency. This supports what my ears tell me, which is that an OB alignment helps flatten the net response of a driver that has an increasing response from the front side.

 

[westend]

So, OB causes the response to drop as frequency goes up (at some point). I like the sound of that, since the rise around 700 hz on the B200 is my main concern with it.

I'll be very interested in the Hawthorne driver.

I wonder if two of the Delta 15LFs (per channel) in a W or H frame would be enough for my occasional Pink Floyd cranking...

Please keep us informed about the Hawthorne 15" and iris.

Oh, and I assume that the open cell or batting covers the backside of the OB?

Thanks.

Paul Ebert

I'm thinking with 2x Delta 15LF and a good bit of power, placed close to the OB, with "Darkside of the Moon" you might be replacing the batting .
BTW, Paul, have you had a chance to audition any good OB alignments? I would be interested on your impressions as we might share some listening habits. I'm currently designing a sub enclosure for HT with an Image Dynamics 15". Down to 16hz. with a 1000w. is where I'm aiming for that.
Also, my experiments in OB continue. The last was an unknown Alnico 10" but the bass wasn't there at all. Great mid-low treble reproduction, though.
I keep remembering some of the "Gravity well of a Darkstar" impressions and they are hard to discount, about the merits of the B200 and OB.

 

[Paul Ebert]

I'm thinking with 2x Delta 15LF and a good bit of power, placed close to the OB, with "Darkside of the Moon" you might be replacing the batting .
BTW, Paul, have you had a chance to audition any good OB alignments? I would be interested on your impressions as we might share some listening habits.

In my case, the 15LFs would be dipole as well. Is that what you're thinking? I would not expect really deep bass from them (40 Hz would be OK).

I'll start with just the B200s and augment them with tweeters (probably Neo3s) and/or woofers as I feel I need and when I can afford such. If I do augment them, I plan to use active equalization and, preferably, none or very minimal on the B200s. So, for example, I'd like to use the baffle width to set the cut-off on the low end for the B200.

I have not auditioned any OB designs (unless you count Magnaplanars and Martin Logan CLSs many years - decades - ago). I'm afraid that, to date, I've been an 'arm chair' designer. I keep hoping to change that, but just when I get ready to put some funds down something supersedes it. I am hoping to purchase the B200s 'real soon now' and get started.

As to my listening habits. I'm into what Harry Pearson calls 'power music' with Mahler being my favorite. Loud definitely comes into the picture, but I very rarely get real loud as I value my deminishing high frequency hearing. Floyd and Zep are my favorite rock bands. But I play classical much more often.

I would love to find some fellow OB and/or full range enthusiasts in my neck of the woods (central NY) to gain exposure to some designs.

 

[earcandy]

ditty wah ditty?

"Ditty wah ditty"....
is a phrase that's repeated over and over again in a fabulous funky old song by the inimitable and immortal Bo Diddly!! Name of song? Could be "Ditty Wah Ditty", but I'm not sure.

AZ.

 

[johninCR]

Re: ditty wah ditty?

"Ditty wah ditty"....
is a phrase that's repeated over and over again in a fabulous funky old song by the inimitable and immortal Bo Diddly!! Name of song? Could be "Ditty Wah Ditty", but I'm not sure.

AZ.

Tootie Fruitie, by Chuck Berry, I think, but it goes "do wah ditty..."

 

[westend]

Re: ditty wah ditty?

"Ditty wah ditty"....
is a phrase that's repeated over and over again in a fabulous funky old song by the inimitable and immortal Bo Diddly!! Name of song? Could be "Ditty Wah Ditty", but I'm not sure.

AZ.

(Arthur Blake)

There's a great big mistery
And it sure is worrying me
It's a ditty wah ditty
Mister ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means

I went out and walked around
Somebody yelled, "Now who's in town ?"
Mister ditty wah ditty
Mister ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means

Some little girl 'bout four-feet-four
Said, "Come on, papa, and gimme some mo'"
Your ditty wah ditty
Your ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means

I went to church, put my hat on the seat
A lady sat on it and said, "Daddy you sho' is sweet"
Mister ditty wah ditty
Mister ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means

I said, "Sister, I'll soon be gone
Just give me that thing that you're sitting on"
My ditty wah ditty
Mister ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means

Then I got put outta the church
'Cause I talked about ditty wah ditty too much
Mister ditty wah ditty
Mister ditty wah ditty
I wished somebody would tell me what ditty wah ditty means
--sung by Ry Cooder
How this relates to the original topic escapes me

 

[DG]

I'll try to revive this thread. (I've been out of commission for a while due to finishing my house.) I knocked out some new baffles for the B200 yesterday. they are roughly 24' by 24" and the center of the driver is about 13" from the floor, and the drivers are mounted slightly off center. I am running them without any compensation network using a grounded grid pre-amp and a push-pull, triode strapped El-34 amp (without feedback). A JVC DVD player is used (for transport only). A "bel canto" 1.1 is the dac that I have. I must admit they sound wonderful in the new space. Now bear in mind that I haven't listened to anthing other than woodworking tools for the past few months. I happy to say that I will definitely keep these speakers. I would like to try them in an aperiodic cab. next, perhaps augmented with a sub.

 

[one1speed]

If you have the $$, and it sounds like you have a nice budget, I'd highly recommend the Veravox 7x. It's out of production now, as changes are being made to the design, (to extend the upper end, I believe).

I have it on OB now and think it's wonderful. I am going to be mating it to a 12" in a BR design, (apparently to the dismay of others) similar to the Basszilla concept. I haven't heard the B200, but feel I can highly recommend this driver as holding it's own at its price point.