Hi folks -
Does anyone have experience with using the Visaton B200 on an open baffle, either by itself, full-range, with or without EQ, or crossed over to a dipole sub?
I've gotten all fired up about dipoles, thanks to all the posts here, and I've done a lot of searching, and, of course, have studiously gone throught the Linkwitz website.
I'd like something relatively simple to start experimenting with, and a good, fairly high Qts speaker like the B200 seems like a likely starting point. The highs don't need to be extended, at least on the first go-round.
I also have one Peerless 12" XLS driver, and might buy another to do an H-frame sub to complete the system.
Active EQ and mutiple amps are a likelihood, probably a DCX2496 plumbed into a Panasonic digital receiver.
Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks - Pat
Does anyone have experience with using the Visaton B200 on an open baffle, either by itself, full-range, with or without EQ, or crossed over to a dipole sub?
I've gotten all fired up about dipoles, thanks to all the posts here, and I've done a lot of searching, and, of course, have studiously gone throught the Linkwitz website.
I'd like something relatively simple to start experimenting with, and a good, fairly high Qts speaker like the B200 seems like a likely starting point. The highs don't need to be extended, at least on the first go-round.
I also have one Peerless 12" XLS driver, and might buy another to do an H-frame sub to complete the system.
Active EQ and mutiple amps are a likelihood, probably a DCX2496 plumbed into a Panasonic digital receiver.
Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks - Pat
Hi,
I haven´t tried the B200 but overread a few posts at the Visaton discussion forum.
You should maybe start a thread there as a lot of people built all of the variations composed by Visaton.
Quite a few have built the Solitude which is the B200 with two 8" bass drivers. Some use them as satellites.
Or you could have a look at the Solo50 and Solo100 which are bass-reflex with helmholtz-absorbers.
The "No Box" is the dipole with a 40cm? chassis for bass extension.
http://www.visaton.de/deutsch/uebersicht/6_89_u.html
As you are called "tubesguy"...
Visaton recently started a thread "what can we do for the tube guys" so that might end up very interesting as well.
http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?threadid=8798
Not particularly cheap as the first prototype uses 4! B200.
http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?threadid=8930
Results don´t seem to be good so far.
I haven´t tried the B200 but overread a few posts at the Visaton discussion forum.
You should maybe start a thread there as a lot of people built all of the variations composed by Visaton.
Quite a few have built the Solitude which is the B200 with two 8" bass drivers. Some use them as satellites.
Or you could have a look at the Solo50 and Solo100 which are bass-reflex with helmholtz-absorbers.
The "No Box" is the dipole with a 40cm? chassis for bass extension.
http://www.visaton.de/deutsch/uebersicht/6_89_u.html
As you are called "tubesguy"...
Visaton recently started a thread "what can we do for the tube guys" so that might end up very interesting as well.
http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?threadid=8798
Not particularly cheap as the first prototype uses 4! B200.
http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?threadid=8930
Results don´t seem to be good so far.
Thanks jens -
I like the idea of the no box Visaton, but the North American distributor doesn't sell the woofer, or the kit, so that isn't going to work well for me. If I could find a more available 15" speaker to replace the Visaton woofer, it would be a very nice starting point. Thanks again - Pat
I like the idea of the no box Visaton, but the North American distributor doesn't sell the woofer, or the kit, so that isn't going to work well for me. If I could find a more available 15" speaker to replace the Visaton woofer, it would be a very nice starting point. Thanks again - Pat
Hi,
Visaton is currently working on a project (called Quadro) using 4 B200 speakers on each side. It is said to have a sensitivity of 96 dB.
Attached you will find a pic of the prototype.
I am aware that this is no boxless speaker but it should be of interest to all those single ended triode users out there, as this speaker is designed to play with small power triodes.
Dataday
Visaton is currently working on a project (called Quadro) using 4 B200 speakers on each side. It is said to have a sensitivity of 96 dB.
Attached you will find a pic of the prototype.
I am aware that this is no boxless speaker but it should be of interest to all those single ended triode users out there, as this speaker is designed to play with small power triodes.
Dataday
Attachments
Appreciate the responses, guys, but high efficiency is not one of the requirements. I quit messing around with tubes after I realized how good the digital receivers were, and how inexpensive an all-digital, 6 channel amp could be. Thanks for the links, and the suggestions. - Pat
Dayton IB Subwoofer
Hi,
if you'd like to build Visaton's "NoBox" and can't get the woofer try the 15" Dayton IB woofer!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-455&DID=7
Have fun!
Thorsten
Hi,
if you'd like to build Visaton's "NoBox" and can't get the woofer try the 15" Dayton IB woofer!
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=295-455&DID=7
Have fun!
Thorsten
I used B200s in open baffles for some time. No EQ. I really liked these. Maybe if i procrastinate long enuff i an figure out how to pay for them before i have to give them back.
dave
dave
planet10 said:
If not, maybe I can intervene and buy them through you. You know how I like to shop at the planet 10 store. 🙂 - Pat
tubesguy said:
Pat,
The fellow who lent them to me would love to see them sold. The asking price is essentially Canadian dealer cost plus post. eMail me if interested.
They are a lovely speaker, no question. Fairly efficient too.
dave
Thanks for the help, guys. It looks like this is a project that's going to happen. I've got the B200s coming from Dave, and may try to do a "NoBox clone" using the woofer suggested by Thorsten, or perhaps some other woofer or woofers. Maybe a pair of 10" in push-pull? - Pat
Hey Pat,
I unburied the Visatons today... i'll get shipping info shortly :^)
(and may get to move back home as soon as Thursday)
dave
I unburied the Visatons today... i'll get shipping info shortly :^)
(and may get to move back home as soon as Thursday)
dave
Hi Dave -
No problem. There's no real rush at this point. I've got some Maggie MMG-Ws on the way, so these will probably sit in the closet for a while, anyway. Thanks - pat
No problem. There's no real rush at this point. I've got some Maggie MMG-Ws on the way, so these will probably sit in the closet for a while, anyway. Thanks - pat
Hello Tubesguy Pat,
Ever thought off an Eminence 15" Woofer (Delta 15 LF)? Fairly priced and will do in an Open Baffle configuration. When you filter the B200 at +/- 200 Hz, the Visaton will match & sound even better with the woofer. I'm working on a same kind of project as you are. (B.T.W. the Visaton woofer is the BGS 40)
Greetz,
Teigetje
Ever thought off an Eminence 15" Woofer (Delta 15 LF)? Fairly priced and will do in an Open Baffle configuration. When you filter the B200 at +/- 200 Hz, the Visaton will match & sound even better with the woofer. I'm working on a same kind of project as you are. (B.T.W. the Visaton woofer is the BGS 40)
Greetz,
Teigetje
Hallo Teigetje,
I have the Bastani Prometheus for evaluation at home (also open baffle and modified eminence 12"). Send me an email if your are interested in a listen.
Regards,
Knorretje
I have the Bastani Prometheus for evaluation at home (also open baffle and modified eminence 12"). Send me an email if your are interested in a listen.
Regards,
Knorretje
Hello Teigetje -
Thanks for directing me to the Eminence woofer. I had been looking for something similar to the BGS40 that Visaton uses in the nobox speaker. The crossover in that speaker is at 250hz, and the BGS40 looks remarkably smooth in its rolloff below the crossover point. It's expensive, though, and not imported by the North American distributor.
I may give the Eminence a try, especially at $83/each.
Thanks - Pat
Thanks for directing me to the Eminence woofer. I had been looking for something similar to the BGS40 that Visaton uses in the nobox speaker. The crossover in that speaker is at 250hz, and the BGS40 looks remarkably smooth in its rolloff below the crossover point. It's expensive, though, and not imported by the North American distributor.
I may give the Eminence a try, especially at $83/each.
Thanks - Pat
Instead of the Delta LF..
http://store.steelsound.com/Detail.bok?no=481
specs here:
http://madisonspeakers.netfirms.com/rawdrivers.htm
should have a low pass higher in freq. to preserve the eff. of the B200.
To increase off-axis performance and extend the freq. range consider these drivers in a 5 driver horizontal bessel array with a cap around 11 kHz:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-035
http://store.steelsound.com/Detail.bok?no=481
specs here:
http://madisonspeakers.netfirms.com/rawdrivers.htm
should have a low pass higher in freq. to preserve the eff. of the B200.
To increase off-axis performance and extend the freq. range consider these drivers in a 5 driver horizontal bessel array with a cap around 11 kHz:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-035
Thanks Scott -
Looks like I've dramatically overpaid for the Eminence woofs. 😉 At their price, however, I can get the Knights and try both.
Have you used either of the drivers that you suggested? I'd be interested in hearing of your experience.
The five driver Bessel array may be a little more than I had intended for a first go-round, but if the Visatons are really as good as their reputation, they might form the basis for something approaching the ultimate (for right now) system. Now that I think of it, however, this is going to be a dipole project. Bessel arrays front and back?
Thanks for the suggestions - pat
Looks like I've dramatically overpaid for the Eminence woofs. 😉 At their price, however, I can get the Knights and try both.
Have you used either of the drivers that you suggested? I'd be interested in hearing of your experience.
The five driver Bessel array may be a little more than I had intended for a first go-round, but if the Visatons are really as good as their reputation, they might form the basis for something approaching the ultimate (for right now) system. Now that I think of it, however, this is going to be a dipole project. Bessel arrays front and back?
Thanks for the suggestions - pat
I haven't used either drivers but the specs are right for the Knights and the graphs are right for the Daytons.
The problem with the Eminence woofs are that the qts isn't high enough nor is the eff. to match the B200's. The meathod around this is the same as Visaton used - i.e. reducing the output level of the B200. Don't dispair though, you could use the Knights as suggested and then use the Eminences as a dipole subwoofer by mass loading the driver (silicone caulk with lead shot on the dust cap) to lower fs and then using an eq. plate amp to boost the level.
Dipole dispersion higher in freq. level is counter productive and causes more audible room influnace to the sound than anything but monopole freq.s below 400 Hz. This is something that shouldn't be much of a problem with the B200's but would be with rear out-of-phase tweets. Now you could go the bi-pole route for an omni directional response but in truth the whole point of the bessel array is to give excellent dispersion off-axis higher in freq. (i.e. I wouldn't recomend it).
In particular the the B200's do appear to suffer from a less extended freq. response (based on a look at the CSD plot on their website). Note though that Planet 10 has said the freq. response was fairly extended (I attribute this though to the better off-axis response higher in freq. 10kHz).. Additionally, the off-axis response around 2kHz is rather poor. Note that Planet 10 has mentioned that it has a "narrow sweet spot". The Dayton tweets have a rising response around this region, what this means is that this tweeter (especially in a horizontal bessel array) will help "fill-in" the response even though the crossover is a rather high (11 kHz) first-order.
As far as the bessel array is concerned, its only a matter of purchasing the drivers and wiring them correctly. The cost isn't high, and the wiring is no more difficult than hooking up a stereo receiver. (Do a google search for more info on the wiring.)
Your welcome!
The problem with the Eminence woofs are that the qts isn't high enough nor is the eff. to match the B200's. The meathod around this is the same as Visaton used - i.e. reducing the output level of the B200. Don't dispair though, you could use the Knights as suggested and then use the Eminences as a dipole subwoofer by mass loading the driver (silicone caulk with lead shot on the dust cap) to lower fs and then using an eq. plate amp to boost the level.
Dipole dispersion higher in freq. level is counter productive and causes more audible room influnace to the sound than anything but monopole freq.s below 400 Hz. This is something that shouldn't be much of a problem with the B200's but would be with rear out-of-phase tweets. Now you could go the bi-pole route for an omni directional response but in truth the whole point of the bessel array is to give excellent dispersion off-axis higher in freq. (i.e. I wouldn't recomend it).
In particular the the B200's do appear to suffer from a less extended freq. response (based on a look at the CSD plot on their website). Note though that Planet 10 has said the freq. response was fairly extended (I attribute this though to the better off-axis response higher in freq. 10kHz).. Additionally, the off-axis response around 2kHz is rather poor. Note that Planet 10 has mentioned that it has a "narrow sweet spot". The Dayton tweets have a rising response around this region, what this means is that this tweeter (especially in a horizontal bessel array) will help "fill-in" the response even though the crossover is a rather high (11 kHz) first-order.
As far as the bessel array is concerned, its only a matter of purchasing the drivers and wiring them correctly. The cost isn't high, and the wiring is no more difficult than hooking up a stereo receiver. (Do a google search for more info on the wiring.)
Your welcome!
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