I can see thermal pollution from the cooling towers of power facilities if that water is put back into the lake with higher temperature, but not the atmosphere. All it is doing is making a small cloud, realitively.
The total amount of energy man releases into the environment is really a fart on the wind compared to how much energy the sun beams down every day, that doesn't reflect into space. It would take allot of methane outbursts to make a difference. It's like fluoridated water....1 part per trillion or something like that. Ever notice that the sun behaves on a cycle?...related to the magnetic field that holds the plasma together. Sometimes there exists weak spots and some material leaks out, or moves out from the center. It only makes sense that if a burst of more intense solar radiation moves across the earth, it will become warmer, and create more changes here. True mankind should monitor the amount of greenhouse gasses he produces, but just when we think we can control it, a volcano explodes and releases more CO2 and SO2 at one than we could in a good while. I think we are more at nature's whelm than we think.
The total amount of energy man releases into the environment is really a fart on the wind compared to how much energy the sun beams down every day, that doesn't reflect into space. It would take allot of methane outbursts to make a difference. It's like fluoridated water....1 part per trillion or something like that. Ever notice that the sun behaves on a cycle?...related to the magnetic field that holds the plasma together. Sometimes there exists weak spots and some material leaks out, or moves out from the center. It only makes sense that if a burst of more intense solar radiation moves across the earth, it will become warmer, and create more changes here. True mankind should monitor the amount of greenhouse gasses he produces, but just when we think we can control it, a volcano explodes and releases more CO2 and SO2 at one than we could in a good while. I think we are more at nature's whelm than we think.
I am not entirely sure if it is in violation of any existing thermal dynamics laws. the 2nd law stipulates that you will have a limit to the efficiency of a thermal energy generator and at 18% over a 200-300C delta, it is not that drastic to violate the 2nd law.
It does point out to us that everything new is discovered every day and whatever considered "laws" today may be proved wrong the next day. Newton's laws of physics proved his predecessors' wrong and Einstein proved Newton's wrong at very high speed. But Quantum theories proved Einstein wrong in very microscale.
so it is entirely possible that the 2nd law (or even the 1st law) of thermodynamics can be wrong, at some point in the future or at some place in the universe.
We just need to have an open mind to be ready for that discovery.
It does point out to us that everything new is discovered every day and whatever considered "laws" today may be proved wrong the next day. Newton's laws of physics proved his predecessors' wrong and Einstein proved Newton's wrong at very high speed. But Quantum theories proved Einstein wrong in very microscale.
so it is entirely possible that the 2nd law (or even the 1st law) of thermodynamics can be wrong, at some point in the future or at some place in the universe.
We just need to have an open mind to be ready for that discovery.
It's the usual deal. They thought they were in violation, until they understood the process.
One of the great barriers can and has been where folks automatically dismiss something due to the scientist or inventors involved not wanting to 'spill the beans' technologically, so to speak. Problem is, the charlatans hide in a very similar appearing guise. BIG PROBLEM. Nor am I saying this is that sort of a problem. But my point is well evident in the results of their work on these thermoelectrics, as reported in the article. The point I've always tried to make is damned clear.
Work things from the other side. Consider them real and work from that vantage point. Much easier to get there, as you'll never get there if you consider them absolute bull. It's far, far, far easier to consider such things as absolute bull..than it is to put in the considerable effort of figuring such things out. Ultimately, at the very least, people are psychologically resistant, and very very lazy. A wickedly bad combination. No matter who they may be. Thus comments like Max Plank's, "Science advances..funeral by funeral'.
What these particular guys were and are talking about is simply a more efficent thermoelectric generator, who's basic function took some time to become clear to them. They had to explain the effect they were seeing. Turns out it violated no laws of any kind, in any way. Their original point of view or point of premise was skewed. Since the reality of the numbers and device were in front of them, they were forced to figure it out.
Science advances, by the death, destruction, and removal of skewed view, by skewed view. Maybe not by skewed view, but a unrealsitc standpoint, when it comes to trying to reach new areas. Depends on your standpoint.
And..being human means there is at the very least, a considerable emotional investment of one's standpoint on reality, specifically and powerfully, within a given scientific community. And this emotional weighting is by far the largest controller of scientific advancement, as it is what keeps us safely on solid ground (a good thing!), but drastically prevents jumping to new areas. Fear based realites--I mean, get real, spend the time thinking about that for a few minutes. It's a standard and well known component of human existence.
For example, if I was to present you with anti-gravity, or levitation 'looking' stuff..you'd believe me, if it was obvious and directly in front of you. To read it on paper is to dismiss it, for most people.
The trick, is to go into the conceptual thinking on it and think in terms of how the fundamentals of the laws of thermodynamics are going to be handled by such an effect or device, not to dismiss such thinking..without the thought being put in, or the effort being put in. Think of such a device being absolutely real and perfected. then figure out how the laws are preserved. It's hard to get most of the talking monkeys past those points. Sometimes it works best if you simply turn such chessboards around and work them from the other side.
As usual, in such circles of invention, the very point of conceptual logic is the gateway to such understandings and will create an explosion in the world of scientific advancement and the finances involved in such areas of human expansion. It is absolutely obvious and no wonder at all, that folks do NOT in ANY way EVER want to explain such devices to you. The very point of understanding is a financial goldmine unlike anything, since the invention of the wheel. A huge bomb, even, within the idea of human psychological change. And it is a known fact that anyone who attempts to drop such a bomb .....could never get far enough away without suffering the wrath of it's effects. The equivalent of being a suicide bomber within the scientific community.
It's no wonder -in any way shape or form- that no one wants to share such information. If one was in posession of such information and understanding, the very point of their existence would be radically altered, right from the base up. It is a -huge- psychological barrier that the people that scream about such things being bull..don't understand. They are simply on the wrong side of it..screaming about things they have no understanding of. The danger lies within the point of shifting, in the mind. When one's entire base understanding of what reality is..shifts. Very fluid, very dangerous. People have to go there on their own, they can't be taken to it. Bad, bad news. This is very, very, very important. It can't be done any other way. Do you begin to see the problem?
If it was easy, everything would be easy and free --we'd all be good looking and smart, live forever, etc. Apparently not.
If you want the understanding, put in the effort. Work for it, like everyone else who made it there did.
Ok. Hint. Like all great answers that fit everything in a universal way..the answers are dead, dead, dead simple. That's the hilarious part. It's so damned funny. If one piles all the anomolous results and puzzles in science, in one spot, it usually becomes clear, if you put in the effort. Don't observe them in isolation, that's the big mistake. Pile them all together. They all end up having the same answer.
And please don't call me a crank..I'm not trying to sell you anything.
One of the great barriers can and has been where folks automatically dismiss something due to the scientist or inventors involved not wanting to 'spill the beans' technologically, so to speak. Problem is, the charlatans hide in a very similar appearing guise. BIG PROBLEM. Nor am I saying this is that sort of a problem. But my point is well evident in the results of their work on these thermoelectrics, as reported in the article. The point I've always tried to make is damned clear.
Work things from the other side. Consider them real and work from that vantage point. Much easier to get there, as you'll never get there if you consider them absolute bull. It's far, far, far easier to consider such things as absolute bull..than it is to put in the considerable effort of figuring such things out. Ultimately, at the very least, people are psychologically resistant, and very very lazy. A wickedly bad combination. No matter who they may be. Thus comments like Max Plank's, "Science advances..funeral by funeral'.
What these particular guys were and are talking about is simply a more efficent thermoelectric generator, who's basic function took some time to become clear to them. They had to explain the effect they were seeing. Turns out it violated no laws of any kind, in any way. Their original point of view or point of premise was skewed. Since the reality of the numbers and device were in front of them, they were forced to figure it out.
Science advances, by the death, destruction, and removal of skewed view, by skewed view. Maybe not by skewed view, but a unrealsitc standpoint, when it comes to trying to reach new areas. Depends on your standpoint.
And..being human means there is at the very least, a considerable emotional investment of one's standpoint on reality, specifically and powerfully, within a given scientific community. And this emotional weighting is by far the largest controller of scientific advancement, as it is what keeps us safely on solid ground (a good thing!), but drastically prevents jumping to new areas. Fear based realites--I mean, get real, spend the time thinking about that for a few minutes. It's a standard and well known component of human existence.
For example, if I was to present you with anti-gravity, or levitation 'looking' stuff..you'd believe me, if it was obvious and directly in front of you. To read it on paper is to dismiss it, for most people.
The trick, is to go into the conceptual thinking on it and think in terms of how the fundamentals of the laws of thermodynamics are going to be handled by such an effect or device, not to dismiss such thinking..without the thought being put in, or the effort being put in. Think of such a device being absolutely real and perfected. then figure out how the laws are preserved. It's hard to get most of the talking monkeys past those points. Sometimes it works best if you simply turn such chessboards around and work them from the other side.
As usual, in such circles of invention, the very point of conceptual logic is the gateway to such understandings and will create an explosion in the world of scientific advancement and the finances involved in such areas of human expansion. It is absolutely obvious and no wonder at all, that folks do NOT in ANY way EVER want to explain such devices to you. The very point of understanding is a financial goldmine unlike anything, since the invention of the wheel. A huge bomb, even, within the idea of human psychological change. And it is a known fact that anyone who attempts to drop such a bomb .....could never get far enough away without suffering the wrath of it's effects. The equivalent of being a suicide bomber within the scientific community.
It's no wonder -in any way shape or form- that no one wants to share such information. If one was in posession of such information and understanding, the very point of their existence would be radically altered, right from the base up. It is a -huge- psychological barrier that the people that scream about such things being bull..don't understand. They are simply on the wrong side of it..screaming about things they have no understanding of. The danger lies within the point of shifting, in the mind. When one's entire base understanding of what reality is..shifts. Very fluid, very dangerous. People have to go there on their own, they can't be taken to it. Bad, bad news. This is very, very, very important. It can't be done any other way. Do you begin to see the problem?
If it was easy, everything would be easy and free --we'd all be good looking and smart, live forever, etc. Apparently not.
If you want the understanding, put in the effort. Work for it, like everyone else who made it there did.
Ok. Hint. Like all great answers that fit everything in a universal way..the answers are dead, dead, dead simple. That's the hilarious part. It's so damned funny. If one piles all the anomolous results and puzzles in science, in one spot, it usually becomes clear, if you put in the effort. Don't observe them in isolation, that's the big mistake. Pile them all together. They all end up having the same answer.
And please don't call me a crank..I'm not trying to sell you anything.
Way Cool
FYI: Seems one of my current signature components has finally made it to the web, in full form. Hopefully the illustrations too, which are neat.
There are some neat pearls of wisdom in there. Some stuff can be grimaced at, but well, read with an open mind. Take the good stuff... leave the bad as, well, a blind turn..with good intent. Just remember as in most anything one comes 'up against'...-you- are the barrier...not the book. At the very least..it's a fun book.
Each of the nearly 50 chapters is so dense with information that it is the equivalent of an entire short book.
FYI: Seems one of my current signature components has finally made it to the web, in full form. Hopefully the illustrations too, which are neat.
There are some neat pearls of wisdom in there. Some stuff can be grimaced at, but well, read with an open mind. Take the good stuff... leave the bad as, well, a blind turn..with good intent. Just remember as in most anything one comes 'up against'...-you- are the barrier...not the book. At the very least..it's a fun book.
Each of the nearly 50 chapters is so dense with information that it is the equivalent of an entire short book.
Chernobyl was deliberately being run out of its "SOA" so to speak, with various safety and "never do this" measures overridden. This is where the stupidly run stuff comes from. Chernobyls design was inherently unsafe so as to allow the plant to be used for enrichment purposes.
There are 4 ways to deal with nuclear waste:
Burn it in breeder reactors.
Store it 10,000 years.
Shoot it into space.
Just let it pile up in your nuclear plants yard (the most common American "solution")
Most coal is ~1ppm uranium, some is as much as 4ppm. If a hospital or nuclear plant directly put the radiation out into the air in a year that a coal plant does in a day it would be shut down with much hoopla. Not to mention the mercury. However, coal is cheap and theres lots of it.
Around here an electric car actually would pollute more than a petrol car with working catalysts.
There are 4 ways to deal with nuclear waste:
Burn it in breeder reactors.
Store it 10,000 years.
Shoot it into space.
Just let it pile up in your nuclear plants yard (the most common American "solution")
Most coal is ~1ppm uranium, some is as much as 4ppm. If a hospital or nuclear plant directly put the radiation out into the air in a year that a coal plant does in a day it would be shut down with much hoopla. Not to mention the mercury. However, coal is cheap and theres lots of it.
Around here an electric car actually would pollute more than a petrol car with working catalysts.
Re: Way Cool
dhaen has a talent for dramatic understatement. Looking at about 5 chapters, this is the most ridiculous pile of @#%$# I have ever seen. The facts that are there are so sparse among the unsupported conclusions that they are hopelessly lost in the context of the paranoid-conspiracy-theory-pseudoscientific-ancient-mystery-claptrap. It probably seems really profound to those who partake in controlled substances...
File under "things that make you go: Hmmmm?"
KBK said:
dhaen said:Looks to me like a summary of all that has held up human development for the last few thousand years....
dhaen has a talent for dramatic understatement. Looking at about 5 chapters, this is the most ridiculous pile of @#%$# I have ever seen. The facts that are there are so sparse among the unsupported conclusions that they are hopelessly lost in the context of the paranoid-conspiracy-theory-pseudoscientific-ancient-mystery-claptrap. It probably seems really profound to those who partake in controlled substances...
File under "things that make you go: Hmmmm?"
Just remember, most of it can seem like 'rubbish' unless you have looked elsewhere, to find little bit of infor which might support, or give some form of creedence to what may be in a given chapter. I merely use such things as raodmaps to 'take a walk' by. To walk down the road of suppositions, in order to reach a conclusion of some sort, be it live... -or memorex.
One must simply remember to go out for such walks, evey now and then, otherwise..one is really fooling one's self.
Although many people have said it...I'll quote Rudolph Stiener's version of this intellgent comment, as it seems appropriate:
"No one can ever deny others the right to ignore the supersensible, but there is never any legitimate reason for people to declare themselves authorites not only on what they themselves are capable of knowing, but also on what they suppose can be known by any other human being."
One must simply remember to go out for such walks, evey now and then, otherwise..one is really fooling one's self.
Although many people have said it...I'll quote Rudolph Stiener's version of this intellgent comment, as it seems appropriate:
"No one can ever deny others the right to ignore the supersensible, but there is never any legitimate reason for people to declare themselves authorites not only on what they themselves are capable of knowing, but also on what they suppose can be known by any other human being."
Concerning nuclear power plants, it's true that theoretically they may be made safe enough to reduce the chances of fatal accidents to one each 1000 years or so...
However, we live in a real world made of real people and real companies with real interests, and that translates into *real* nuclear power plants as opposed to theoretical ones.
Those *real* nuclear power plants are suffering and will always be suffering from:
- Aging and wearing out.
- Lack of money, technicians and parts in order to keep everything 100% functional as if it was brand new all the time.
- Budget shortages, particularly in safety and maintenance areas.
- A lack of well trained operators capable of making the right decisions.
- Operators being forced to take the wrong decisions by some politician or big company in order to get more profit at the expense of safety.
Remember that the worst disasters, like the one from the chemical plant in Bophal in India (owned by Union Carbide, an USA based company), which killed more than 500.000 people, happened just due to unexplainable money shortages (forced by stupid bureaucrats). The man who was in charge of the safety of that plant said in an interview that he left his job a few days before the disaster and travelled as far as he could because he was no longer able to guarantee any safery with such a lack of spare parts and trained personnel to repair the plant!! They were even lacking such simple things as new valves or joints to replace worn out ones!!
Real nuclear plants suffer from that very same potential weakness.
However, we live in a real world made of real people and real companies with real interests, and that translates into *real* nuclear power plants as opposed to theoretical ones.
Those *real* nuclear power plants are suffering and will always be suffering from:
- Aging and wearing out.
- Lack of money, technicians and parts in order to keep everything 100% functional as if it was brand new all the time.
- Budget shortages, particularly in safety and maintenance areas.
- A lack of well trained operators capable of making the right decisions.
- Operators being forced to take the wrong decisions by some politician or big company in order to get more profit at the expense of safety.
Remember that the worst disasters, like the one from the chemical plant in Bophal in India (owned by Union Carbide, an USA based company), which killed more than 500.000 people, happened just due to unexplainable money shortages (forced by stupid bureaucrats). The man who was in charge of the safety of that plant said in an interview that he left his job a few days before the disaster and travelled as far as he could because he was no longer able to guarantee any safery with such a lack of spare parts and trained personnel to repair the plant!! They were even lacking such simple things as new valves or joints to replace worn out ones!!
Real nuclear plants suffer from that very same potential weakness.
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