i've recently realized that i prefer listening to my records in mono (with the Denon DL-102, using 1 speaker, 1 monoblock amp, 1/2 of my TVC, etc). i've even rewired my tonearm so that only one channel so to speak is being picked up (just 2 twisted wires exit the arm). anyway, what i'm not sure about "splitting in half" is my phono pre. i use a diyhifisupply Cole phono pre - if the tonearm wire is connected to only 1 input jack on the back of the phono pre, and only 1 output jack is being used out to my monoblock amp, am i losing any signal? a friend recommended i insert a shorting plug into the other input jack (what the hell's a "shorting plug"?). or should I cut/desolder some of the connections of the other channel? i don't plan on going back to stereo, but i really like the Cole.
thank you in advance for any advice
thank you in advance for any advice
You aren't losing any signal. There should be no need doing anything with the preamp, unless you want to and know what you are doing. Won't make any sonic difference, though.
You know that Susumu Sakuma uses the DL-102? Sakuma applies 5 g instead of the recommended 3.
You know that Susumu Sakuma uses the DL-102? Sakuma applies 5 g instead of the recommended 3.
I you are listening to stereo recordings in mono, shouldn't you at least pick up both channels from the record and then mix them to mono? Even though there is quite a lot of crosstalk on LP, you are actually listening to only one channel. Is that really what you want?
well, at first it was just kind of out of necessity. my wife runs her small antique business out of the first two floors of our house, so i'm left our tiny basement to set up. in addition, i had come into 1 old Tannoy Red driver practically for beans - great condition, just missing a partner. first record i listened to was Low's "Things We Lost in the Fire" and it was one of those WOW! moments and i haven't looked back. heck, i think about listening to records all day at work now and drive home like a madman so i have more time to, er, sit in the basement. 😀
(also makes me wonder what kind of equipment this guy, steve albini, is using to record the bands he produces. incredible sound.)
(also makes me wonder what kind of equipment this guy, steve albini, is using to record the bands he produces. incredible sound.)
I'm not knocking stereo. But it was originally for the tech nerds, just as surround is today. Stereo is great if you listen to stuff like Pink Floyd's Ummagumma album. But if you listen to, say, Muddy Waters, there's no need for stereo. Stereo has become something we take for granted. But unless you sit in the sweetspot, you are in fact listening to mono.
Good luck with your set-up.
Good luck with your set-up.
Second that. The channels were intended to see separate cable capacitances and loading resistances, phono is sensitive to proper loading.Christer said:
Could it (partly at least) be the new loading conditions that you find sound better?
lndm said:
That too, but I was rather referring to that he looses the information from one of the channels, which would make it very strange as a mono source.
Phn,
I would too a large extent agree with you, but for a different reason. I listen to a lot of old recordings from the pre-stereo era, and it is surprising how many of those give a much better impression av acoustics and hall ambience than most stereo recordings. That has nothing to do with them being mono though, just that most stereo recordings are so badly recorded and produced that they destroy the acoustic information. Close up mics and multi-channel mixing were a big mistake, at least for recording classical music, and probably for many other types too. Some of the best stereo recordings in this respect are still the first RCA stereo recordings from around 1954, when they only used two, or at most three, microphones and did no mixing after taping it.
Note that I am not talking about technical qualities like noise, distorsion etc. but the acoustics and the feeling of being there, in the concert hall.
thank you phn, christer, and all for the insightful advice and comments. i suspect that i don't really understand how this denon dl-102 cartridge works and, what's worse, i may be using it improperly.
as mentioned above, right now i have a single wire soldered directly to one pin of the denon 102, and another single wire soldered to the other; these are twisted and both are soldered to where one input jack would be on the back of my phono preamp (sorry for the crude descrip). are you saying that i need to add 2 more wires from the cartridge pins (essentially replicating/doubling the current wiring setup) to the *other* (currently unused) input jack of my phono pre (i.e., operate the stereo phono pre "normally")?
i take it then that what i really need here is a preamp like an old McIntosh C22 with a mono button that can sum these 2 channels into, for example, just the L channel where the signal will then lead to 1 amp and 1 speaker.
as mentioned above, right now i have a single wire soldered directly to one pin of the denon 102, and another single wire soldered to the other; these are twisted and both are soldered to where one input jack would be on the back of my phono preamp (sorry for the crude descrip). are you saying that i need to add 2 more wires from the cartridge pins (essentially replicating/doubling the current wiring setup) to the *other* (currently unused) input jack of my phono pre (i.e., operate the stereo phono pre "normally")?
i take it then that what i really need here is a preamp like an old McIntosh C22 with a mono button that can sum these 2 channels into, for example, just the L channel where the signal will then lead to 1 amp and 1 speaker.
Ah wait a minute! Is that Denon thing a real mono cartridge? In that case, forget what I said. I assumed you were using a stereo cartridge to play your records in mono.
You don't need any C22. What you have is at least as good. The "extra" channel makes no difference.
If you positively must disable one channel, contact diyhifisupply.
Your system seems fine to me. I haven't heard the DL-102. But the fact that tube guru Sakuma uses one is enough to convince me. The cart was made for broadcasting. It can play stereo and mono recordings, but the output is mono. You have the cart wired right.
If you positively must disable one channel, contact diyhifisupply.
Your system seems fine to me. I haven't heard the DL-102. But the fact that tube guru Sakuma uses one is enough to convince me. The cart was made for broadcasting. It can play stereo and mono recordings, but the output is mono. You have the cart wired right.
stereo to mono
This one will get you thinking “This guy a nutter”. Problem! We need to plug the output of a stereo keyboard into a mono 100watt amp, do we desolder the stereo plug and solder the two channel wires together into a mono plug or would that blow something up? the wife has just come up with what she thinks is the the keyboards (not sure) manufacturers info and she thinks it is, sereo use left and right keybord out put. mono use right output only. What do you guys think?
Always cut towards your friend.
This one will get you thinking “This guy a nutter”. Problem! We need to plug the output of a stereo keyboard into a mono 100watt amp, do we desolder the stereo plug and solder the two channel wires together into a mono plug or would that blow something up? the wife has just come up with what she thinks is the the keyboards (not sure) manufacturers info and she thinks it is, sereo use left and right keybord out put. mono use right output only. What do you guys think?
Always cut towards your friend.
Re: stereo to mono
those kind of keyboards many times have 2 outputs the left and the right. they have and internal switch. when you just conect the right chanel the left chanel is linked to the right.
ahrsix said:
those kind of keyboards many times have 2 outputs the left and the right. they have and internal switch. when you just conect the right chanel the left chanel is linked to the right.
Do not short the channels.
If you plan to use a mono amp, use only one channel. Leave the other be.
I don't know what a stereo keyboard is. If there's a purpose for two channels, somebody else will have to answer that.
If you plan to use a mono amp, use only one channel. Leave the other be.
I don't know what a stereo keyboard is. If there's a purpose for two channels, somebody else will have to answer that.
Hi,
I hope I understood you correctly, the Denon 102 is a mono output cartridge that is COMPATIBLE WITH STEREO recordings.
The mono output is a transverse wiggle (real technical term) of the groove and all mono pickups can follow this.
The stereo output comes from a vertical wiggle (or is that jump?) of the groove and mono cartridges do not have sufficient compliance to follow the vertical modulation.
But stereo compatible mono cartridges are designed to follow the vertical modulation but only output a signal from the horizontal modulation.
If you use a mono cartridge on a stereo recording it will try to chisel out the vertical modualtion to make a flat groove with no vertical modulation. = ruined recording.
I hope I understood you correctly, the Denon 102 is a mono output cartridge that is COMPATIBLE WITH STEREO recordings.
The mono output is a transverse wiggle (real technical term) of the groove and all mono pickups can follow this.
The stereo output comes from a vertical wiggle (or is that jump?) of the groove and mono cartridges do not have sufficient compliance to follow the vertical modulation.
But stereo compatible mono cartridges are designed to follow the vertical modulation but only output a signal from the horizontal modulation.
If you use a mono cartridge on a stereo recording it will try to chisel out the vertical modualtion to make a flat groove with no vertical modulation. = ruined recording.
"Features:
Because the fulcrum of the vibration gauge is constructed with a fine wire, the needle will not slip into the sound groove but will maintain a steady movement going only in directions of either up and down or left and right, resulting in undistorted superior playback sound quality.
Unlike conventional mono cartridges, this one is most effective when utilized in mono replay during stereo recordings because of its ability to comply to appropriate up/down movements.
The curvature radius of the needle is 17 microns (0.7 mil) thus highly suited for recordings of both stereo and mono style."
http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DL102inst.htm
Because the fulcrum of the vibration gauge is constructed with a fine wire, the needle will not slip into the sound groove but will maintain a steady movement going only in directions of either up and down or left and right, resulting in undistorted superior playback sound quality.
Unlike conventional mono cartridges, this one is most effective when utilized in mono replay during stereo recordings because of its ability to comply to appropriate up/down movements.
The curvature radius of the needle is 17 microns (0.7 mil) thus highly suited for recordings of both stereo and mono style."
http://www3.sympatico.ca/murraya/DL102inst.htm
Hi,
I am confused.
The link clearly says the 102 is a mono cartridge that is compatible for playing stereo recordings in mono.
But right at the end it lists four terminals marked R,L,RG,LG.
What is happening here.
Can you confirm you have just two terminals or four?
I am confused.
The link clearly says the 102 is a mono cartridge that is compatible for playing stereo recordings in mono.
But right at the end it lists four terminals marked R,L,RG,LG.
What is happening here.
Can you confirm you have just two terminals or four?
The cart has only two pins. The text is from the instruction sheet and refers to the headshell leads.
To the original poster. You might want to experiment with the load. The instruction sheet says 1 kOhm and over. (It always says "and over" for MC carts.) Paralleling a 1k2 resistor gives you slightly more than 1k. A 5k6 resistor gives you about 5k, 12k about 10k, and 47k=23.5k. I don't think you need to try any other values. There's no right value, though the value mentioned by the manufacturer (in this case 1k) usually is pretty close.
To the original poster. You might want to experiment with the load. The instruction sheet says 1 kOhm and over. (It always says "and over" for MC carts.) Paralleling a 1k2 resistor gives you slightly more than 1k. A 5k6 resistor gives you about 5k, 12k about 10k, and 47k=23.5k. I don't think you need to try any other values. There's no right value, though the value mentioned by the manufacturer (in this case 1k) usually is pretty close.
Thanks for that advice, phn. Let me see if I understand correctly: my Denon 102 is connected directly to the MM input, so if I am loading *way* over the recommended ~1K Ohm with the standard 47K, I am "exaggerating" the upper frequency of the cartridge?
I would like to try what you suggested and tune by ear. I wonder if it is possible for you to explain in words where I go about adding the resistors? This is probably very difficult... I am sorry, I am in retirement now and doubt I will ever have enough energy to learn what I need to know to do these kinds of things on my own (which is why I still build kits, practical instructions).
I would like to try what you suggested and tune by ear. I wonder if it is possible for you to explain in words where I go about adding the resistors? This is probably very difficult... I am sorry, I am in retirement now and doubt I will ever have enough energy to learn what I need to know to do these kinds of things on my own (which is why I still build kits, practical instructions).
The "Sonic Evaluation" (I think that's the name) page on the Ortofon site tells you everything you should expect. Ortofon's server seems to be down at the moment.
This is how I would do it (trying to be overly detailed, just in case):
Get one male and one female RCA connector and some wire. What wire isn't important since you only need about one foot. Any hook-up wire will do. Then you need some cheapo resistors, 1k2 (this is the only crucial value; not under 1k1), 5k6, 12k, and 47k. (If you like the sound of the 1k2, the others are probably not needed. But we're talking a total cost of about a $ or two. And you might feel like playing around.)
Make a 3-4 inch interconnect. Leave the cover off one RCA connector. Now solder one resistor in parallel between plus and minus on the coverless RCA. When you have the value you like, open up your preamp and solder resistor in parallel to the RCA input. If you like to get more advanced, you can also unsolder the 47kOhm resistor in the preamp and replace it with the value you want. Then the 1k2 resistor should be replaced with 1k.
As for the McIntosh C22. The only thing that differs if from your pre is the switch. When you select Mono, you aren't turning off one channel. Unplugging one interconnect, as in your case, does the exact same thing.
This is how I would do it (trying to be overly detailed, just in case):
Get one male and one female RCA connector and some wire. What wire isn't important since you only need about one foot. Any hook-up wire will do. Then you need some cheapo resistors, 1k2 (this is the only crucial value; not under 1k1), 5k6, 12k, and 47k. (If you like the sound of the 1k2, the others are probably not needed. But we're talking a total cost of about a $ or two. And you might feel like playing around.)
Make a 3-4 inch interconnect. Leave the cover off one RCA connector. Now solder one resistor in parallel between plus and minus on the coverless RCA. When you have the value you like, open up your preamp and solder resistor in parallel to the RCA input. If you like to get more advanced, you can also unsolder the 47kOhm resistor in the preamp and replace it with the value you want. Then the 1k2 resistor should be replaced with 1k.
As for the McIntosh C22. The only thing that differs if from your pre is the switch. When you select Mono, you aren't turning off one channel. Unplugging one interconnect, as in your case, does the exact same thing.
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