Hello folks,
I've built my very first loudspeakers: a large dipole using Jordan jx92 fullrange, with no crossover, and two Adire DPL12 per channel, crossed at 150 HZ, 12db. Biamplified with tubes on Jordan and 300w solidstate on Adire. I like the results, as they easily outperform nearly every hi-end speaker I listenned to. But, well, you know how it goes, don't you? ;-)
I'm looking around to replace my DPL12, as they're damn low in sensitivity (81 db in my preferred configuration, with one of the voice coils left open to encrease Q) and I'd like to drive the subs with a tube power amp I'm building (at very best, I'll manage to obtain 50W). Wishing to stick to Dual Voice Coils units, I looked around and found several interesting sub drivers for caraudio. Audiobahn Alum15Q have the most attractive numbers (and look too ;-) for use in a dipole, but then I read several user's reviews reporting the need of 700-1000w of power amp. With a sensitivity of 96db and an impedance of 6 Ohms???
I know nothing about caraudio, so, can anyone explain me what am I missing? In addition, anyone can advise on the use of caraudio sub drivers in home enviroment?
Warmest regards from sunny Italia,
Armando
I've built my very first loudspeakers: a large dipole using Jordan jx92 fullrange, with no crossover, and two Adire DPL12 per channel, crossed at 150 HZ, 12db. Biamplified with tubes on Jordan and 300w solidstate on Adire. I like the results, as they easily outperform nearly every hi-end speaker I listenned to. But, well, you know how it goes, don't you? ;-)
I'm looking around to replace my DPL12, as they're damn low in sensitivity (81 db in my preferred configuration, with one of the voice coils left open to encrease Q) and I'd like to drive the subs with a tube power amp I'm building (at very best, I'll manage to obtain 50W). Wishing to stick to Dual Voice Coils units, I looked around and found several interesting sub drivers for caraudio. Audiobahn Alum15Q have the most attractive numbers (and look too ;-) for use in a dipole, but then I read several user's reviews reporting the need of 700-1000w of power amp. With a sensitivity of 96db and an impedance of 6 Ohms???
I know nothing about caraudio, so, can anyone explain me what am I missing? In addition, anyone can advise on the use of caraudio sub drivers in home enviroment?
Warmest regards from sunny Italia,
Armando
That sensitivity might be bogus. Car audio drivers have very low sensitivities and very stiff suspensions.
The sensitivity is more like 86 db. I have the alum12x, which is the same as the alum12q.
I plugged some numbers into winisd, and it came up with a sensitivity of 86 for my subs. As for the power requirement, you don't need 1kw of power. They sound good no matter how much power you give them. I had my subs running at 700 wrms (voice coils in parallel) in a sealed box, and they were almost bottoming out, so I wouldn't recommend running them at anything over 700 (in a sealed box). I'm not sure how they will work in a dipole though.
Running them in a home environment will be fine.
The 15s are a waste of money. For the price of 2 15s you can get 3 12s. Mechanically (before bottoming out) the 15s will not handle any more power than the 12s.
I plugged some numbers into winisd, and it came up with a sensitivity of 86 for my subs. As for the power requirement, you don't need 1kw of power. They sound good no matter how much power you give them. I had my subs running at 700 wrms (voice coils in parallel) in a sealed box, and they were almost bottoming out, so I wouldn't recommend running them at anything over 700 (in a sealed box). I'm not sure how they will work in a dipole though.
Running them in a home environment will be fine.
The 15s are a waste of money. For the price of 2 15s you can get 3 12s. Mechanically (before bottoming out) the 15s will not handle any more power than the 12s.
Nominal sensitivity means nothing for subs, ignore it and look at the response and sensivity in the range you are using them.
Why do you want to do that?
What you are doing now makes sense, but what you are proposing to do doesn't! I think you are planning on taking a backward step. Even those who are tube lovers will admit solid state is better for bass!
The drivers you are considering might be more efficient on the top end but down low they may be less efficient. You will then have to sacrifice the top end efficiency and you may end up with less useable efficiency. Not to mention the fact that car audio subs are usually poor value for money in comparison to well regarded diy subs.
Why do you want to do that?
What you are doing now makes sense, but what you are proposing to do doesn't! I think you are planning on taking a backward step. Even those who are tube lovers will admit solid state is better for bass!
The drivers you are considering might be more efficient on the top end but down low they may be less efficient. You will then have to sacrifice the top end efficiency and you may end up with less useable efficiency. Not to mention the fact that car audio subs are usually poor value for money in comparison to well regarded diy subs.
Totally agree with everything Paul wrote there.
Sensitivity figures are almost always meaningless. I can't see how you can complain about the sensitivity of the DPL12 when you are only using one voicecoil -- connect them both and just apply a little bass boost.
Bass from tubes is just not up to solid state standards of depth and control due to the output transformers.
Sensitivity figures are almost always meaningless. I can't see how you can complain about the sensitivity of the DPL12 when you are only using one voicecoil -- connect them both and just apply a little bass boost.
Bass from tubes is just not up to solid state standards of depth and control due to the output transformers.
First, let me thank all of you for your very, very enlightening replies.
I connect only one voice coil because this way the Qes doubles up and I like the "drier" bass produced. Yet, I really miss those 3 db's (and many more, BTW).
As for the tube v.s. transistor bass issue: my project is around an OTL amp, no output transformers and, usually, very good bass reproduction with speakers over 4 Ohm (I'm also told that there are several OPT which do not limit bass response; it must be said that they're usually quite expensive too). But the main reason is I really want to build my first poweramp and I don't think I'm able to build an highish power one using solid state technology
Ok, now I've confessed...
Considering that several of my candidates drivers (which I found lurking on this list) are now saidly unavailable (the Madisound one as well as Lambda ecc ecc), would you suggest any? DVC and high sensitivity a plus.
I have a fair offer on Adire Maelstrom 18", but then the Qt seems to discourage use in a dipole. Anyone tried it this way?
Again, thanka a lot for your powerful input, folks,
Armando
I connect only one voice coil because this way the Qes doubles up and I like the "drier" bass produced. Yet, I really miss those 3 db's (and many more, BTW).
As for the tube v.s. transistor bass issue: my project is around an OTL amp, no output transformers and, usually, very good bass reproduction with speakers over 4 Ohm (I'm also told that there are several OPT which do not limit bass response; it must be said that they're usually quite expensive too). But the main reason is I really want to build my first poweramp and I don't think I'm able to build an highish power one using solid state technology
Ok, now I've confessed...Considering that several of my candidates drivers (which I found lurking on this list) are now saidly unavailable (the Madisound one as well as Lambda ecc ecc), would you suggest any? DVC and high sensitivity a plus.
I have a fair offer on Adire Maelstrom 18", but then the Qt seems to discourage use in a dipole. Anyone tried it this way?
Again, thanka a lot for your powerful input, folks,
Armando
Armando,
You will do what you want to do and we won't stop you, but if you are going to put in the effort, make sure you are making a forward step!
Why not try a simpler solid state amp first? Then get into a high powered one. Still, why do you even need it? If you have the diy urge, put it into an upgrade, not a downgrade!!!
How about the 15" IB subs that John at AE speakers has? They are going very cheap $400 USD for 4 of them. They are Lambda design and have a chrome phase plug. They look quite impressive.
AE speakers IB15
You will do what you want to do and we won't stop you, but if you are going to put in the effort, make sure you are making a forward step!
Why not try a simpler solid state amp first? Then get into a high powered one. Still, why do you even need it? If you have the diy urge, put it into an upgrade, not a downgrade!!!
How about the 15" IB subs that John at AE speakers has? They are going very cheap $400 USD for 4 of them. They are Lambda design and have a chrome phase plug. They look quite impressive.
AE speakers IB15
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