CHAD UNDERWOOD My name is Chad Underwood. My callsign is ‘Nutz’. I was a lieutenant at the time on USS Nimitz. I filmed the Tic Tac video with the VFA 41 Black Aces, serving under my commanding officer Dave ‘Sex’ Fravor. I wanted to bring every single mode and zoom that the FLIR is capable of back to the carrier so we could analyze this thing because I’m not gonna be able to solve this problem in real time. It was offensively jamming us just outside international waters in peacetime operations. It’s an act of war and we’re gonna go out there and make you pay for that.
JEREMY CORBELL Good to talk with you. So you are now Commander Chad Underwood. Not anymore, Lieutenant Chad Underwood. We’re talking about the Tic Tac UFO case and I just, you know, thanks for being here. And can you just introduce yourself?
CHAD UNDERWOOD At the time of the Nimitz encounter, I was a lieutenant back in 2004. And since I’ve served almost 21 years to the day as, and got promoted to lieutenant commander and the commander a few months ago, but at the time of the Nimitz encounter, I was a lieutenant.
JEREMY CORBELL And this is the first video interview that you’re doing.
CHAD UNDERWOOD That’s correct.
JEREMY CORBELL Okay. So you are involved in the most famous modern day UFO case of all time. The Tic Tac UFO case, you are the man that filmed the Tic Tac UFO the footage that everybody knows around the world. The story’s been on 60 Minutes with Commander Fravor, with Alex Dietrich, but you are the man that filmed the Tic Tac UFO, can you tell me a little bit about that? Like how does that feel?
CHAD UNDERWOOD More weird than interesting than usual. I would never would have suspected almost 17 years ago, that this would be a thing in the media. It’s weird. It’s interesting, but it happened. And so you got to acknowledge it. And my friends and family just kind of crack up every time there’s a link on, you know, Fox, you know, on whatever news outlet is out there. I’m just like, really again? It’s very surreal. That’s for sure. And I’d never thought in a million years that the term Tic Tac would be still in the zeitgeist of where we are.
JEREMY CORBELL Okay, we got to talk about that. So there’s a funny story that you shared with me that I’d love people to hear. You’re the man that named the Tic Tac UFO, how did you come up with the name Tic Tac UFO, can you tell us how you came up with that term?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Of course, anyone who knows me, friends, family, etc. yourself, knows that my sense of humor is very rooted in these 80s and 90s. I love like the slapstick comedy of Airplane, Naked Gun, Top Secret, Fletch, Caddyshack, etc, that kind of physical slapstick humor. And so when we went out there and we had this encounter, Dave Fravor had already debriefed his flight. And so everyone on the carrier, at least in the aviation wing, knew about this by the time I landed and I went to the Intelligence Center. And so I brought my tapes back and they were like, Hey, did you see a UFO too? And I’m like, actually, I got here on video. They were like, you know, their eyeballs, just, you know, we’re like, whoa. And so we popped the tapes in and they were like, what would you describe this as? And my thoughts going through my head where the scene from Airplane where the reporters are asking that guy Johnny, one of the ground controllers, Can you describe this plane? And he’s like, Oh, it’s a big white shiny plane with wheels. And you know, it looks like a big Tylenol.
‘AIRPLANE’ CLIP What kind of plane is Oh, it’s a big pretty white plane with red stripes and curtains in the window and wheels and it looks like a big Tylenol.
CHAD UNDERWOOD And I knew if I described it as a big Tylenol that that’s too much not taking it seriously. And anyone who knows me, I don’t take a whole lot of things seriously, but I was like, ah, I probably shouldn’t say that. It’s just it’s too on the nose. And so I was like, well, it looks like a big Tic Tac, you know, and it did. Like just kind of this white, oblong, featureless thing. It looks like a Tic Tac and it just kind of became the name for it for the next few days, little did I know that 17 years ago, it would still be a thing. So it’s rooted in humor, It’s rooted in slapstick, and it’s rooted in my interest in that kind of stuff. And so that’s really how the Tic Tac was named.
JEREMY CORBELL So you thought they wouldn’t take the term Tylenol seriously. So you’re like, it looked like a Tic Tac? (laughter) I think you chose the best name for a UFO. So what was the form of footage that you took off of the plane?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Eight millimeter tapes. Just you know, they’re about you know, that big. And they now use solid state drives.
JEREMY CORBELL So the footage people are seeing, the famous footage of the Tic Tac UFO, that was off eight millimeter tapes.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL So when you go into the CBC, you’ve got your radar data and your FLIR footage, is that all on the same eight millimeter format?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah, it’s called CVIC. Carrier vehicle Intelligence Center. That’s where we always go, you know, I’m still in my flight gear. I don’t even take my gear off. At the time, there were two sets of tapes that you would put in. One was for the right hand display. One was for the left hand display. Just so you know, we could record those simultaneously.
JEREMY CORBELL But you’re saying you got radar footage or footage of the radar as well during the Tic Tac UFO event?
CHAD UNDERWOOD I did. Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL But the world hasn’t seen that yet.
CHAD UNDERWOOD No, and they’re probably not going to see it for a long time. Because the radar tape is are … there’s two types of sensors that we record on the aircraft, active sensors and passive sensors. The FLIR is a passive sensor, the radar however, is what we call an active sensor. So it’s shooting emissions out and receiving data in and an active sensor can be exploited by our enemies if they can see the data that’s on that screen.
JEREMY CORBELL Okay, so what you’re saying is you brought back two types of data. So one is, you know, radar data that is outward looking. And a lot of that will remain classified. And the other is a passive system, which is the FLIR which is just you know, receiving. And that’s the footage that we all know, that’s been out publicly.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Right.
JEREMY CORBELL Did I get that? Right?
CHAD UNDERWOOD You’re absolutely correct. I wish we could release the active sensor radar footage to see the initial because…
JEREMY CORBELL Yeah, what would you see on it?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Well, that was the initial contact is you know, I get a vector from the Princeton, you initially do that on your radar, you don’t do that on your FLIR. Once you acquire your target, from your radar, every other sensor that I have on board my aircraft is a slave to that target. So my FLIR, my electronic warfare systems, and it’s going to lock onto that target, and it’s going to look at that target and focus on that target. That’s what it’s designed to do.
JEREMY CORBELL So to be clear, so I understand, you did pick this thing up on radar first.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Correct. Yeah.
JEREMY CORBELL Okay. You saw other sensor data, you saw radar data?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah, of course. Once I got the target of interest on my radar, I took a lock and that’s when all the kind of the funky things started happening. The erratic nature of the Tic Tac. The airspeed was very telling to me. And then we started seeing what we call jam strobe lines, strobe lines are vertical lines that show up on your radar that are indications that you’re being jammed.
JEREMY CORBELL We talked about that when we did the audio recording. And something you said to me, that I think is important kind of for people to hear. There was a 2009 investigation where they did a report, it’s called the executive summary. I’m sure you’ve read it, right?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL It states in there that you did not receive jamming cues. And that’s in contradiction to both your interviews and Commander Fravor interviews. Could you clarify about that? Were you consulted for that report? Is it just wrong?
CHAD UNDERWOOD I was not consulted for that report. I have been interviewed 1/10 of 1% from the government, as I have from yourself. I did get jamming cues on my radar tape, and you can see cues of jamming on both your radar and your FLIR tape. You know when Commander Fravor described on your FLIR tape, when you see like 99.9 range to target. That means you’re being jammed.
JEREMY CORBELL It was seen on your SA at the time, not just your own radar.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yes.
JEREMY CORBELL Was there any other traffic at the cap point during the intercept?
CHAD UNDERWOOD No, nothing at all. And we were flying what we call the whiskey areas. They’re restricted for military aircraft. And we scheduled those more or less for a safety of flights just to make sure that any other military aircraft or civilian aircraft for that matter, are not flying in that sector of airspace.
JEREMY CORBELL There was no red air in the area from the previous exercise.
CHAD UNDERWOOD That’s correct. Yeah, yeah, there was nothing that wouldn’t be identifiable in the sector of airspace that we were flying. And the way that this object was behaving was not indicative of how a civilian or commercial aircraft would fly until you see the aggressive maneuver to the left off of my FLIR. Anything that it’s going to do is going to be tracked by the FLIR. And so when the target maneuvered off to the left of my screen as you see on the FLIR display, that was a result of that object maneuvering itself, not me maneuvering my own aircraft.
JEREMY CORBELL This completely went off to your left, lost track at that moment the video ends, right?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Right. Yeah, yeah, as we talked about earlier.
JEREMY CORBELL Because people are saying it loses track when the bars are widening, and it’s not losing track.
CHAD UNDERWOOD It’s maintaining track when it widens its bars. It’s basically telling me that it’s losing confidence in that track, but then it goes back, you know, you see it widens out and then it goes back. It never dragged off the target. The FLIR is designed to and engineered to be able to hack that kind of maneuvering. But that, the way that aircraft maneuvered, or that object, whatever, is not something that I can explain. It just went (sound woop) and it was off to the races wherever it’s going, and that was it.
JEREMY CORBELL At the end of the video, we see it appears the object shoots off to our left. Is that indeed what happened?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Oh, yes, yes, yes, absolutely.
JEREMY CORBELL And did you like radio into the Princeton and ask them, Where is it?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah, absolutely. Because the Princeton was our controller to begin with if this Tic Tac never existed. And so I immediately got on the radar. I’m like, Hey, where’s this thing? Because I only have a certain scan volume with my radar and my FLIR and this thing is gone. And so I immediately radio the Princeton in my E2 Hawkeye controller are like, hey, this target, based off my bearing and range, where is it? Where’s it heading? And where is it going? And they’re like, negative radar contact, which means their radars are clean, you know, and they don’t see anything.
JEREMY CORBELL Yeah, but that’s important. That’s important. Because what you’re saying is, you were targeted in towards this Tic Tac object using other sensors. The Princeton had this continuous track on it, they send you out, they tell you where to go, you pick it up on your radar, you then slave it over to your optical system, you record all of that, you come back, you put it in, but also when this thing shows these unique displays of movement, the shooting off to your left, you then ask the Princeton. Hey, you have a better radar. Where is it? Where’s it going? What’s going on? They’re like, it’s gone.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah, that’s … to put it clearly that’s pretty much what happened. And since it’s shot off to the left, you know, immediately vectored my own aircraft to the left to try to reacquire it, and nothing.
JEREMY CORBELL Wow.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah, it’s just weird.
JEREMY CORBELL So tell me like, what was weird about what you filmed that day, compared to every other day of your flying career.
CHAD UNDERWOOD That darting off to the left, because, you know, as I’m tracking it, you know, from my radar to my FLIR, I see that kind of stuff daily. However, my radar and FLIR should be able to account for that kind of discrepancy. And so once it shot off to the left, immediately aggressively maneuver my fire to the left to try to require and it moved with a velocity that I’ve not seen, I should be able to reacquire that aircraft, or whatever it was. And that’s just, I mean, we’re talking an $80 million fighter, you know.
JEREMY CORBELL I mean, this thing shot off at beyond hypersonic speed. If you can’t bank the aircraft, and then re acquire it, something, it shot off.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah. And my estimation at this point is that was about 10 to 15 miles off my nose, I should be able to see an exhaust plume on my FLIR, you should be able to see that heat, I should be able to tell that it’s an aircraft, it’s got wings, I should be able to tell what type of aircraft it is, I should be able to know that. And I wasn’t seeing any of that.
JEREMY CORBELL If somebody said the Tic Tac that you filmed was a US black project. You told me it’s not, tell me why you know it’s not.
CHAD UNDERWOOD If there is something out there that you have seen as a pilot or aviator that you weren’t supposed to see, you get vectored home airborne in real time, say, hey, head home, and then you have to debrief with someone who’s briefed on that particular project.
JEREMY CORBELL Which has happened to you, you have encountered something that is a black project, and you had to debrief because and there’s a protocol for that.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Exactly. What happens is, when you’re in the Intelligence Center, CVIC, you describe what you saw, they describe what you’ve seen, they make you sign a nondisclosure agreement or an NDA. And they say, this is the project name. They don’t describe what it is or what it does, or, you know, anything like that. It’s just, you know, you shall not speak of this again.
JEREMY CORBELL That did not happen with the Tic Tac, that did not happen.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Nope.
JEREMY CORBELL So nobody said to you, you saw something you shouldn’t, this is a black project, you know, sign this NDA, that is the protocol. That’s what would have happened if it was US technology.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Right.
JEREMY CORBELL US black technology. But that didn’t happen?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Nope. And it didn’t happen with Commander Fravor either.
JEREMY CORBELL What do you think you saw?
CHAD UNDERWOOD I don’t know, Jeremy, man, I have no idea. Like, it was just this weird thing that I should normally be able to identify or identify with characteristics. Yeah, it had no flight characteristics, you know, a method of lift, propulsion, things like that. And it was at a range where I should be able to distinguish flight characteristics, and that just just didn’t happen.
JEREMY CORBELL What is it like when your kids, you know, say, hey, Daddy did you see an alien? You know, or Hey, Daddy, did you see an alien ship? You know, your kids ask you that kind of thing?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Oh, yeah, they do all the time. And, you know, they’re, you know, as a fan of Star Wars and things like that. Guardians of the Galaxy for my kids and things like, you know what not, and they’re just, every day, they’re just like, Hey, did you see an alien, you know, at work? And I’m just like, No, I don’t know what I saw. And I told them, I can’t remember where the quote came from. But there’s a quote out there that says, either we’re alone in this universe, or we aren’t. Each is equally terrifying. With billions of galaxies and billions of planets that are out there. The odds of us being the only life forms that are here is unlikely. You just kind of have to live with that knowledge and just know that we’re probably not the only beings out there.
JEREMY CORBELL You’re leaving it on the table that this could be something not from here, this could be an extra-terrestrial vehicle, we don’t know.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Oh, absolutely, yeah, totally. And, you know, as a rational human being, I leave that completely on the table. It has to be as a logical, rational person.
JEREMY CORBELL The evidence that it’s our black technologies, that seems to be dwindling, that seems to be going away.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Yeah. That seems to be the case. I think the Pentagon and the folks that put these reports out, I think that is the correct assessment.
JEREMY CORBELL The idea this is US technology. We’ve already talked about how it’s not a black project, it’s that you would have been treated differently, does somebody have a technology 1000 plus years ahead of us, another foreign nation that had it back in 2004 when you filmed the Tic Tac? I mean, that would be pretty wild.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Absolutely. And I agree with that assessment, both now in 2021. And back in 2004, especially in 2004, this stuff would not have existed. And certainly, it wasn’t a US unacknowledged black project, or even acknowledged back project. If anyone assumes that it was a, you know, let’s just say China, Russia, you know, our kind of big threats out there that have money and projects. Nothing to describe as that kind of technology that could have acted in that way.
JEREMY CORBELL Commander Fravor said that he could imagine maybe in 2004, you know, there’s stuff he doesn’t know. But he says, This is 17 years later. So to keep that technology secret, he said, would probably almost impossible for 17 years.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Right.
JEREMY CORBELL That’s why he said he’s leaning more towards this is not ours.
CHAD UNDERWOOD I agree with that. I agree completely with that. I know, we don’t have it, that technology, which means that China and Russia, there’s no way right, and that they could just do what Commander Fravor described, you know, the up, down left, right, you know, the way that it acted on the surface and the way that it acted getting airborne, that just doesn’t, that doesn’t happen. And like I said, like that was my weirded out moment was when, you know, he described it, and then I saw it. And and then it was just like, okay, where, where do we go from here? And to be quite honest with you, Jeremy, the conversations at the chow hall and things like that, when I’m talking with my fellow aviators. We talked about it a little bit, but we just moved on.
JEREMY CORBELL What changes when you achieve commander? What does it do?
CHAD UNDERWOOD I’m in the reserves. I’ve been in Reserves for 10 years.
JEREMY CORBELL So your daily job, your daily life, is it in a similar field?
CHAD UNDERWOOD My civilian job? All that I can tell anyone, I’m a systems engineer.
JEREMY CORBELL Have you ever talked with anybody, has anybody said I know you were part of it. Nobody?
CHAD UNDERWOOD Every day.
JEREMY CORBELL People talk to you about it?
CHAD UNDERWOOD About the Tic Tac?
JEREMY CORBELL Yeah.
CHAD UNDERWOOD All the time. Because I really, I worked with other engineers. And so they’re kind of wired into this zeitgeist you know…
JEREMY CORBELL They’re into it, man. They’re really into it.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Oh, yeah. I mean, because we all work in aviation and things like that. And they’re more interested in it than I am. And so they’ll tell me like, Hey, you know, I saw your article in the New York Times, whatever. They know, before I do. And so they’re like, Hey, what’s up UFO man, I’m like, Oh, God. Because it seems like since this whole thing happened, it seems like every, you know, 3, 4, 6 months, whatever, something new comes out. I’m like, What’s new? What is new? Like, what what? What are they disclosing that we don’t already know?
JEREMY CORBELL Yeah. Well, I’m releasing a lot of s***.
CHAD UNDERWOOD Well, I know that Yeah. And, and that’s in your best interest. But you know, from my perspective, like, I wake up on a Monday morning, I’m just like, Alright, what now? Like, that’s basically just how it feels. You know, I’ll acknowledge it. And they’ll all know the story. And you know, some of the younger engineers will ask me like, hey, you’re the Tic Tac guy. I’m like, Yeah,.
JEREMY CORBELL I mean, I think the biggest point that we got here is that Commander Underwood has a great sense of humor, because he called the UFO a Tic Tac, because he didn’t want to call it a Tylenol. That would just be too absurd.
CHAD UNDERWOOD I know. Yeah, you’re absolutely right.
JEREMY CORBELL Thank you for sharing your story, the story about the Tic Tac naming with me and with anybody who watches it. Thank you so much that that’s a really cool story. I appreciate it.
CHAD UNDERWOOD You got it brother.
