Upgrading Capacitor Crossover - Is there any benefit replacing old electrolytic cap ?

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#22
I checked a few more.

4.7uF bipolar 100V 0.4 ohms (strange less than the 10uF
4.3uF poly 0.1 ohms

3.3 uF Bipolar 100V (different brand) 0.3 ohms
3.3uF poly 0.1 ohms

1uF bipolar 100V 2.3 ohms (but who wouldn't use a film for a 1uF)
1uF poly 0.23 ohms (order of magnitude difference!)

Tony.
 
#24
For the treble :

And we must don't forgett that the swap of the cement ceramic resistors with a wirewound ones (a 2 euros tweak for the 2 resistors) will give more listening difference that 2 different model of MKP caps...

What is the final ESR of two caps in //, typical a 0,1 uF for bypass with a bigger one ? Total ESR is divided by two for the signal too like with powersupply ?

I often asking myself with the modern caps if the little bypass is necessary ? If I look at my Boston Lynfield 400L, There are everywhere a 0,1 uF polystyrene caps: with the electrolytic as with the mylar (no metalysed polypropyne with these speakers... maybe because of the aluminium cone !).

I test with or without for each driver, and my opinion is the bypass is not to add details or space resolution but for seting up the tonal balance with these speakers. But I can't say that's an universal conclusion of course.

Are there people here who listen to differences between a tweeter with 8 uf of a very good mkp cap and the same with a added 0,1 uF of the same model ? I never try as I have not enough caps and very good are expensive if no needed...
 
#25
Eldam said:
Are there people here who listen to differences between a tweeter with 8 uf of a very good mkp cap and the same with a added 0,1 uF of the same model ? I never try as I have not enough caps and very good are expensive if no needed...
Click to expand...

Yes and it added sibilance. Small value film bypass caps can work well bypassing electrolytics but don't always work well bypassing larger film caps.
 
#28
Nothing new under the sun, yes: drivers, blending, design and XO are more important than the final type of caps. But as already written the drivers and design and crossover already exist. Work on caps and resistor can sometimes help a little and is the simpliest tweak... limited, but woerth it sometimes. That's my experience.

Of course, working on the XO will give more results but with more wasting time and money. Sure the value of the caps are the same after 5 years. All these advices were given here before. Bah... the OP can try MKT and wirewound for fun and learning : not expensive. Sure going on Mundorf supreme has no sense. For the same price of these caps, you have new drivers or the possibility to go with active, multiple unexpensive tda amps and have some fun.

I'm not sure it's possible to do better alone than a specialized staff at the factory to improve in a big step these drivers...

Let's wait for the results of the poster🙂
 
#29
"Improving" in this case and yours of course is subjective without any measurements but that's also nothing new under the sun. People come on here all the time saying "it's a lot better now" but that's hardly proof or of any help to anyone else other than the poster. Whatever, have fun swapping parts.
 
#30
Nothing new again, all is subjective.
Measurement sometimes is nit usefull for little job.
Do you really think you need measurement for swaping resistor and a 8 uf cap ?
You have to try, sometimes measurement help...or not, here the poster doesn t want to change the xo...
Some have more fun at looking measurement than listen difference because they are afraid to be stupid if nothing is measured .
What do you want to prove with your link ? Maybe the poster can be happy with a little.improvenent
Sometimes good enough and yes having fun with that.
Measurement, redesign is not the goal here...
What could be a better advice or help according to you here ?
Maybe going to the factory with more dollars than for caps to buy new speakers....we really need a new link for the speakets to buy....and measurements.
 
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#31
I have a pair of Polk R20's that have a simple 1st order crossover.
I replaced the electro on the tweeter with an Aerovox I pulled out of a surplus battery charger.
I DEFINITELY noticed a difference listening to overblown alto and tenor saxophone.
I can't describe the change but it was definitely for the better.

Measurements may show a lot of concrete fact but experimenting is much more fun, so long as you don't break anything in the process.
 
#32
The point is, without having a basic knowledge of what really causes an improvement in the sound and why, you might as well just leave it alone and not bother. Otherwise, yes, you might cause a change in the frequency response and it might sound different but does that really mean an improvement or just a change? Too many people are "parts swappers" and never learn anything.
It's up to the OP and yourself to want to put the time into knowledge and learning but hey, like I said, have fun swapping parts, I'm done here.
 
#33
Both are conciliable.

You can know theory, I know some (ESR, ESL), and need to test with swaps. I know that the good designers need the both approach. most of time you beginn with measurement and finalize with ears by little improvement (like swaping parts). think the best set up of good sounding speakers were not maid with the nose on Clio. But Clio, measurement, computer are needed to beginn.

Here the OP is very accurate in his question. The ears will say to him if it's an improvement, not understanding the theory. He just want to swap parts with equal value (caps and/or resistor) : easy, inexpensive. He doesn't need a theory which say that changing parts is for fools (that's my understanding about the author after reading the link you gave). Doing is learning too.

Sometimes I think of the first impression of the first prehistoric man who eat an oyster without open it before understanding he had to ! No manual for him but he knew much more after haved eating it !

think we are agree for the main.
 
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#34
#35
Hi Guys,
I appreciate for all replies and suggestions here. Thank you 🙂.
Sorry I'm too busy with my office work yesterday and maybe up to next week.

Eldam said:
What is the treble signature ?
Click to expand...
sound a little soft and I can't hear many details instrument.

Eldam said:
Where is the resistor, which value ? just before the 8,2 uF cap in serie (for the tweeter). So you can, if the sound is not too bright to change for a wirewound 10 Watts or stay with cement to pad down harchness, and maybe try with another stronger value (+ 3 ohms ???) to pad down too. It's not expensive to try (1 dollar a resistor).
Click to expand...
7Watt 2.7 ohm. OK I will try to change the resistor.

fatmarley said:
Sometimes replacing electrolytics with polyprop makes an improvement, sometimes it makes no difference and i've heard a few people say it made their speakers sound worse. I noticed quite a large improvement replacing the electrolytics in some budget Mission m70, so I think it's worth a try.
The best way to do it, is to replace the tweeter cap to start with and see if it makes an improvement. If it does, try replacing the cap on the woofer.
Click to expand...
Nice idea to try with tweeter cap first. Thanks.

msb64 said:
I originally had non polarized electrolytics in part of my crossover, and then changed them to the Solen Polypropylenes. I ran those for about a year, and then switched back to new np electrolytics (also from Solen). After running those for about 6 months, I determined that I preferred the polypropylenes, so I put those back in.
Click to expand...
Do you feel the difference is big? I think I must try polypropylene cap.

msb64 said:
For me, spending $50 - $100 or so for a possible performance upgrade is not much of a risk at all.
Sometimes the whole learning procedure is just as fun as ending up with a good result.
Click to expand...

🙂 You're right. I have budget $50 -60 USD for getting fun with crossover cap and resistor


xjr100 said:
Take a look on measurements here:
Wharfedale Diamond 9.1 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

If you replace 8.2 to poly cap - you'll get more resolution, and it will highlight 5-8K, which your ears hardly will like.

If you replace 20uF in bass section - most probably you'll loose "artificial volume", what electrolytic add.

100% sure, that electrolytic capacitors there are OK. It is recommended to measure them before buying new ones - no sense to replace working parts.
Click to expand...
Nice explanation. Thanks
Are you guys from audiohobby.eu ? 3 days ago I sent an email to audiohobby.eu...if you are the guys who work at audiohobby & tell me "no sense to replace working parts" I think I will not buy from your shop 😀 -- just kidding


xjr100 said:
Weakest place in your speakers is tweeter, cabinet and crossover.
Start from side-bars inside of cabinet, then some bitumen to walls. Also you can replace internal wiring to standard copper 2.5mm - no need for expensive ones.

You can play with re-designing crossover, but it is long and expensive process, which for such relatively inexpensive speakers is not a good idea.

Next step - you can replace tweeter + make new crossover (or alternatively - sell them and buy better second-hand speakers). For sure it will bring more, then just replacing caps to higher grade.
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't understand. What do you mean with "...replace internal wiring to standard copper 2.5mm - no need for expensive ones." ?

I dont have a plan to replace tweeter now, maybe next time after I learning about how to design crossover

Eldam said:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...designing-crossovers-without-measurement.html : this link is usefull for a next step if swaping parts give no result.
Click to expand...
Thanks for notice me this link
 
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#37
And a Bennic standard MKP will do wonders
BTW I once heard a pair of those speakers and they're not to blame ( previous version, with a single vent )
and I was there for installing a subwoofer ( DIY 8 " + 8 " passive ) which did a good job. So I was
more focused towards the bass region...😱
 
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