Hi,
I have built a set of the Seas idunn's with upgraded crossovers and they sound great. Though they are running off a very old Yamaha receiver.
I don't have a theater room in the current house so am just running the idunn fronts and a sub.
Can anyone recommend whether it would be better to upgrade the receiver or to build/buy an amp to run the fronts?
Can any of you that have built these let me know what you are running them off?
Thanks
I have built a set of the Seas idunn's with upgraded crossovers and they sound great. Though they are running off a very old Yamaha receiver.
I don't have a theater room in the current house so am just running the idunn fronts and a sub.
Can anyone recommend whether it would be better to upgrade the receiver or to build/buy an amp to run the fronts?
Can any of you that have built these let me know what you are running them off?
Thanks
Depends on quality of your old receiver. By looking at Idunn's
impedance plot, it appears to be very easy load for an amp.
Maybe you could measure THD performance of your receiver
and that way find a bit more about it. Open it up and check
its power supply and electronics in general. Bulky transformer
with large filter caps is always a good feature. The same holds
true for massive heatsinks. If it sounds ok and you don't experience
lack of power delivered to a speaker at your listening level, I guess
you don't have to look for a better one.
impedance plot, it appears to be very easy load for an amp.
Maybe you could measure THD performance of your receiver
and that way find a bit more about it. Open it up and check
its power supply and electronics in general. Bulky transformer
with large filter caps is always a good feature. The same holds
true for massive heatsinks. If it sounds ok and you don't experience
lack of power delivered to a speaker at your listening level, I guess
you don't have to look for a better one.
Thanks for the info. It doesn't sound bad but i feel at higher volumes that there could be more.
The receiver i have is fairly old and needs an upgrade anyway since it doesnt even have HDMI RX-V461 - RX-V - AV Receivers - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States
I was looking at something like the Marantz SR5008 receiver to upgrade to but thought in the mean time it may be worth building up a better amp to run the speakers.
The receiver i have is fairly old and needs an upgrade anyway since it doesnt even have HDMI RX-V461 - RX-V - AV Receivers - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States
I was looking at something like the Marantz SR5008 receiver to upgrade to but thought in the mean time it may be worth building up a better amp to run the speakers.
That is it for sure. Your receiver can't deliver much power. It doesn't
matter what the specs say. Maybe you could borrow a decent amp and
try it out to see what happens. I can tell you what I did for myself.
Out of this book:
The Audiophile's Project Sourcebook: 80 High-Performance Audio Electronics Projects: G. Randy Slone: 0639785330820: Amazon.com: Books
I built the amp on page 137 , basic EF (PRO 60) and it's been working for the
last decade flawlessly. The sound is very clean and you can feel, with the right
power supply, how effortlessly the amp delivers power. It is protected against
short circuit and I installed additionally DC protection for the speakers in case
of output transistor failure. On page 231 DC protection scematic has one flaw,
speaker common wire is not connected to the lower part of the circuit ( minus
of the C4 polarized cap). Short circuit and DC protection work great. Both tested.
Have not built any other amp from the same book, except micro mite model,
a 12W/8 ohms with the "same circuit topology" as pro 60.
matter what the specs say. Maybe you could borrow a decent amp and
try it out to see what happens. I can tell you what I did for myself.
Out of this book:
The Audiophile's Project Sourcebook: 80 High-Performance Audio Electronics Projects: G. Randy Slone: 0639785330820: Amazon.com: Books
I built the amp on page 137 , basic EF (PRO 60) and it's been working for the
last decade flawlessly. The sound is very clean and you can feel, with the right
power supply, how effortlessly the amp delivers power. It is protected against
short circuit and I installed additionally DC protection for the speakers in case
of output transistor failure. On page 231 DC protection scematic has one flaw,
speaker common wire is not connected to the lower part of the circuit ( minus
of the C4 polarized cap). Short circuit and DC protection work great. Both tested.
Have not built any other amp from the same book, except micro mite model,
a 12W/8 ohms with the "same circuit topology" as pro 60.
Cool, thanks for the input. At least i know i'm on the right track.
How hard is it to build the amp in the book. I am happy enough getting parts and putting them all together, but still have no idea on how a lot of it works. Is it all step by step or am i better off starting with an easier amp kit?
Where would be the best place to read up specifically on something that would run these speakers to learn how it all works? I'd have to read all about tube amps only to find i should be building a chip amp for my setup.
If you care to find about how things work in an amp, I suggest
getting something like this:
High-Power Audio Amplifier Construction Manual: G. Randy Slone: 9780071341196: Amazon.com: Books
Pretty much very detailed description. There is one very complicated schematic
of an amp in this book which, according to people who have built it, doesn't work.
Can't remeber the reason why, only it had something to do with schematic being
designed only on simulator and not tested for real or something like that.
Would not know any better than that.
Back to the amp I built. Did not bother to make the proper pcb myself for a
bunch of reasons, mostly cost and not wanting to learn how, I did connect all
the parts by bare wire. As a helping template I used a reflected artwork of the
wire traces on a transparent print foil and that way it was easier to know how
bare wire is to be directed. Took me 9 hours of soldering and placing all parts
on one channel board. I guess I would not know whether it would be better
for you to start with something easier or not.
You could do well with chip amps too I suppose, but best more of them in
parallel configuration so the current needed would not be an issue.
There are certainly others who wrote good books regarding amps and stuff,
like Douglas Self, but I don't own any from this guy.
getting something like this:
High-Power Audio Amplifier Construction Manual: G. Randy Slone: 9780071341196: Amazon.com: Books
Pretty much very detailed description. There is one very complicated schematic
of an amp in this book which, according to people who have built it, doesn't work.
Can't remeber the reason why, only it had something to do with schematic being
designed only on simulator and not tested for real or something like that.
Would not know any better than that.
Back to the amp I built. Did not bother to make the proper pcb myself for a
bunch of reasons, mostly cost and not wanting to learn how, I did connect all
the parts by bare wire. As a helping template I used a reflected artwork of the
wire traces on a transparent print foil and that way it was easier to know how
bare wire is to be directed. Took me 9 hours of soldering and placing all parts
on one channel board. I guess I would not know whether it would be better
for you to start with something easier or not.
You could do well with chip amps too I suppose, but best more of them in
parallel configuration so the current needed would not be an issue.
There are certainly others who wrote good books regarding amps and stuff,
like Douglas Self, but I don't own any from this guy.
hmmm. Is there a kit that you could recommend for me to try out that would be suitable? That way i can put one together and learn a bit more rather than reading for the next few months.
This one seems OK and cheap on Ebay. Links would not work here.
DIY amp board LM3886 *3 150W Parallel Mono Amplifier Board PCB
US 29.99$ + shipping
filter caps and rectifier: 1 piece is enough for stereo amp
4*10000uF/50V Rectifier filter power supply unit board PSU kit for DIY
US 25.99$ free shipping
Get LM3886 datasheet, full of usefull information.
Transformer should be chosen with appropriate VA rating.
DIY amp board LM3886 *3 150W Parallel Mono Amplifier Board PCB
US 29.99$ + shipping
filter caps and rectifier: 1 piece is enough for stereo amp
4*10000uF/50V Rectifier filter power supply unit board PSU kit for DIY
US 25.99$ free shipping
Get LM3886 datasheet, full of usefull information.
Transformer should be chosen with appropriate VA rating.
I'll have a look.
I dont mind spending a few hundred dollars if its worth the extra for these speakers.
Do you just buy premade Transformers or build them too? sorry for the stupid questions, i'm getting my way through the Elliot Sound Products website now
I dont mind spending a few hundred dollars if its worth the extra for these speakers.
Do you just buy premade Transformers or build them too? sorry for the stupid questions, i'm getting my way through the Elliot Sound Products website now
I don't make transformers. The thing with transformers is they can buzz
if not carefully constructed, particularly the ones with higher VA rating.
Good luck !
if not carefully constructed, particularly the ones with higher VA rating.
Good luck !
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I've emailed Brian from Chipamp. I'll try to get everything i need in one hit so i can build it up and get an idea of everything as i go.
Thanks for your help.
Thanks for your help.
If i don't build an amp and want to buy one to start,
Can anyone tell if the Topping TP60 will be good to drive these idunns?
Can anyone tell if the Topping TP60 will be good to drive these idunns?
Hi Alex,
Just thought I'd mention I've almost finished building similar speakers to the Idunns (same cab size and woofers, different tweeter) and currently run them through a newer Yamaha av amp:
Yamaha RXV375 Black | AV Receiver | Richer Sounds
It needs more power at high levels like you say about your older av amp. Sounds fantastic though.
Am getting a old Pioneer A-400 like I've previously owned, that will sort the power out am sure. And sound much better in general in stereo.
Which speaker cable do you use? I've found them very sensitive to changes in different cables.
Just thought I'd mention I've almost finished building similar speakers to the Idunns (same cab size and woofers, different tweeter) and currently run them through a newer Yamaha av amp:
Yamaha RXV375 Black | AV Receiver | Richer Sounds
It needs more power at high levels like you say about your older av amp. Sounds fantastic though.
Am getting a old Pioneer A-400 like I've previously owned, that will sort the power out am sure. And sound much better in general in stereo.
Which speaker cable do you use? I've found them very sensitive to changes in different cables.
FWIW, I've owned a couple of pieces of Yamaha electronics over the years, and I think you could do worse. Even though most of the current crop of affordable AVR receivers have more features than most folks will ever use, and an maze of menu levels than can make the 3D chess from Star Trek feel like a game of Chinese checkers, they still deliver amazing bang for the buck in terms of signal processing, XO and bass management.
I recently upgraded a 4yr old Denon AVR1610 to an Onkyo TX NR818, and the sonic difference is not subtle, and believe it or not the setup & customization menus are more intuitive an comprehensive. I haven't played with all the features yet, but one that really appeals to me as a speaker builder is the digital crossover feature. While most mid-range on up 7 & 9.1 receivers these days will allow for assignment of a pair of surround channels to passive bi-amping, this unit has full digital XO for front mains, at the sacrifice of the front width/height effects channels from what I can parse from the 156 page manual.
I recently upgraded a 4yr old Denon AVR1610 to an Onkyo TX NR818, and the sonic difference is not subtle, and believe it or not the setup & customization menus are more intuitive an comprehensive. I haven't played with all the features yet, but one that really appeals to me as a speaker builder is the digital crossover feature. While most mid-range on up 7 & 9.1 receivers these days will allow for assignment of a pair of surround channels to passive bi-amping, this unit has full digital XO for front mains, at the sacrifice of the front width/height effects channels from what I can parse from the 156 page manual.
Yes Chris your right you could do worse, Yamaha have been making some good AV amps for years and am really impressed with it for little money. I think the features are great like XO and bass management and digital inputs.
Do you think buying an old Pioneer A-400 will be a good upgrade in stereo? I have read a lot of AV Amps don't handle louder volumes compared to stereo amps and I like mine loud quite often.
Do you think buying an old Pioneer A-400 will be a good upgrade in stereo? I have read a lot of AV Amps don't handle louder volumes compared to stereo amps and I like mine loud quite often.
Hi,
I haven't been on here for a while. I ended up retiring the Yamaha receiver. I got hold of an Adcom GTP-600 Preamp and now run a Topping TP60 amp and Beresford BMII DAC on my speakers.
The Topping amp made a huge difference compared to the Yamaha receiver i had.
The plan now is to build another set of idunn's as floor standers with side firing Seas L26ROY subs at the base (cabinets separated internally). I will run the idunn's as a 2 way again and use a crown XLS1000 to run the two subs and cross where required. The current idunn's will become rear speakers and stay on the TP60. I'll get a better 2 channel to run the new front set. Look at Emotiva, Cambridge, Rotel and a few others at the moment.
Speaker cable i use is a home made 4 wire braid using thin OFC wire. But i am going to get hold of some Van Damme blue 4mm as i have heard good things about this cable.
I've also made my own interconnects using Belden 3079A cable and Furutech ends. This made a big difference compared to the cheap ones, but i think the Adcom Pre amp i have is well known to be sensitive to good cables.
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Great to hear your improved your sound your plans are fantastic!
I plan on sitting my Seas 2-ways on Peerless 10" 'fat bottom' sub cabs, Behringer or RCF power amp with Behringer Active XO yet your idea of side-firing L26ROY's sounds a great plan. I also want these as rear speakers:
SEAS CURV
I'd recommend a Rotel amp over Cambridge Audio. Had a Cambridge Audio amp before, the A5 if I remember correctly and sounded nothing like the previous Pioneer A-400 and I better mention it shortly after buying it brand new my dad left it on with no music running through for about 5 hours and it burnt out 🙁
If you have bi-wired I'd definitely recommend thicker good quality OFC for the Idunns woofers and thinner cable for the DXTs and look for cables that aren't bright sounding for the tweeters too.
Good to hear you've had good results changing cables 🙂
I plan on sitting my Seas 2-ways on Peerless 10" 'fat bottom' sub cabs, Behringer or RCF power amp with Behringer Active XO yet your idea of side-firing L26ROY's sounds a great plan. I also want these as rear speakers:
SEAS CURV
I'd recommend a Rotel amp over Cambridge Audio. Had a Cambridge Audio amp before, the A5 if I remember correctly and sounded nothing like the previous Pioneer A-400 and I better mention it shortly after buying it brand new my dad left it on with no music running through for about 5 hours and it burnt out 🙁
If you have bi-wired I'd definitely recommend thicker good quality OFC for the Idunns woofers and thinner cable for the DXTs and look for cables that aren't bright sounding for the tweeters too.
Good to hear you've had good results changing cables 🙂
Hi Alex,
I read that you upgraded the original crossover of the idunn, do you have a picture or scheme of it?
I made a loudspeaker set based on diapason astera, using an original idunn crossover.
forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl • Toon onderwerp - Franks gaat weer bouwen: Astera
Gr Franksch
I read that you upgraded the original crossover of the idunn, do you have a picture or scheme of it?
I made a loudspeaker set based on diapason astera, using an original idunn crossover.
forum.zelfbouwaudio.nl • Toon onderwerp - Franks gaat weer bouwen: Astera
Gr Franksch
Thanks mate, Your plans sound good too.
Thanks for the heads up about Cambridge. To be honest, i havent really decided on any amp yet. I am going to get the speakers built and the subs/amp done. Then i'll get one of the slimline Marantz receivers as these have Pre-outs. Then i will look at getting a better power amp.
May get the 5 channel Marantz to match the receiver, but dont know as yet.
Going to get 4mm2 Van Damme cable for the speakers as i'll heard good things about this. I haven't bi wired as i dont really know anything about it yet. Still trying to learn lots, thats why i ended up just buying amps instead of building. I'll stick with just building speakers first. After all this is done, i'll build a little cheap amp to run a set of speakers at my PC, then build up from there.
Hi,
The crossover schematic is the same as the original found here Idunn
But i used Goertz copper foil inductors and Clarity ESA caps that madisound have for an extra $96
The Madisound Speaker Store
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