I have some B&W 601 s3's and I had decided to try and do a diy set up for around 300 and start using those, but the folks here told me I should try to tweak what I have first. I figured I could give it a whirl and see if I can get the performance I want. I'm open to any suggestions but the first thing I thought I would give a try is to upgrade the cross over. Here's a pic
http://www.bwspeakers.com/images/photoItem/Crossover_close_up.jpg
I've never done this before so if somebody could tell me what exactly to upgrade on it and how, that would be great. Thanks a bunch.
Bruce
http://www.bwspeakers.com/images/photoItem/Crossover_close_up.jpg
I've never done this before so if somebody could tell me what exactly to upgrade on it and how, that would be great. Thanks a bunch.
Bruce
Thanks Bro.. I was just looking at it in confusion wondering how it was in Loudspeaker, and then I saw you post. I appreciate it.
Bruce
Bruce
Two possibilities spring to mind. One involves arranging the components so they are physically separated from each other, especially the inductors, and firmly held in place. Make sure they are far from the magnets, and connected with soldered joints.
The other is to upgrade the components. To be brief, ditch the sand cast resistors and don't use polyethylene capacitors here. Try non-inductive wirewound or carbon resistors IMO. Try polypropylene or paper capacitors IMO.
Using heavy gauge inductors and cables may help or hinder an existing design. Worth a try.
The other is to upgrade the components. To be brief, ditch the sand cast resistors and don't use polyethylene capacitors here. Try non-inductive wirewound or carbon resistors IMO. Try polypropylene or paper capacitors IMO.
Using heavy gauge inductors and cables may help or hinder an existing design. Worth a try.
Did the people that suggest you modify the crossover suggest anything specific. I personally think there are diminishng returns going down that avenue. B&W has the talent and resources beyond the capabilities of most people here. Unless you consider yourself golden ears you prob cant distinguish between cap dielectrics. If you use beefier chokes you can actually spoil the intended Q of the design. I vote to leave them in stock condition and think about selling them if you are really unhappy.
IMO the reason there is uncertainty over whether the sound of components matters, is where they are tried. ie. put a quality capacitor in a mass fi device and what difference do you notice.
When a system is almost top notch, the components can end up being the biggest problem, and much easier to notice.
Still, B&W components are probably OK already, but if you wan't to keep your existing setup, this is worth it.
When a system is almost top notch, the components can end up being the biggest problem, and much easier to notice.
Still, B&W components are probably OK already, but if you wan't to keep your existing setup, this is worth it.
Typically, for most designs the cost of the crossovers are more than the cost of the drivers. I recommend you try some cheap tweaks, but don't try to redo the entire crossover because that sounds risky. Basically if the cheap tweaks don't work, build a well-regarded DIY design. Then at least you know that the speakers are not the problem in your audio chain, it'll be something else (ie. the source or whatever). Saying that the speakers will not be the problem with a good DIY design is a bold statement, but in my experience it's true, these DIY speakers are really excellent.
First of all. You need to figure out what you believe are the problems with your B&W's, (i.e. not enough bass, quality of bass, missing resolution in the midrange, distortions in HF, on&on)
How can we help you solve a problem if you cannot articulate it?
You can spend loads of cash on aftermarket upgrades to a crossover. In the end, all for naught if it doesn't meet your expectations. Crossovers are the cash cow for most DIY speaker dealers. They take advantage of newer people to DIY. Let me say this, as a longtime designer if you are spending more on a crossover than a single driver, you have failed in your preliminary driver selection (period and exclamation point).
How can we help you solve a problem if you cannot articulate it?
You can spend loads of cash on aftermarket upgrades to a crossover. In the end, all for naught if it doesn't meet your expectations. Crossovers are the cash cow for most DIY speaker dealers. They take advantage of newer people to DIY. Let me say this, as a longtime designer if you are spending more on a crossover than a single driver, you have failed in your preliminary driver selection (period and exclamation point).
Listen to the system first and determine what you don't like about it.
Draw up a schematic to have a good idea how the current crossover looks.
Test the drivers on the inclosure individually to see how they perform.
Connect two by two in parallel to see how they might acoustically interfere with each other.
Measure the closed box impedance of the cone drivers.
Design XO and build as you normally would DIY to see how differently it sounds using the same quality of componenets. If the result is better, replace DIY XO with best components you plan to use and listen again.
Draw up a schematic to have a good idea how the current crossover looks.
Test the drivers on the inclosure individually to see how they perform.
Connect two by two in parallel to see how they might acoustically interfere with each other.
Measure the closed box impedance of the cone drivers.
Design XO and build as you normally would DIY to see how differently it sounds using the same quality of componenets. If the result is better, replace DIY XO with best components you plan to use and listen again.
B&W DM-601S3 is well designed and versatile speaker but it has a room for improvement, specially in performance of midranges.
The detailed upgrade is described here:
BW Bowers Wilkins DM 601-S3 Crossover Upgrade for Better Midrange Perfoprmance
The improved crossover narrows the area both drivers work together, significantly reducing the unwanted interference between them.
Since the tweeter's new version crossover has a steeper slope, the tweeter is safer in case of overpower.
The upgrade is cheap, easy and reversible.
The detailed upgrade is described here:
BW Bowers Wilkins DM 601-S3 Crossover Upgrade for Better Midrange Perfoprmance
The improved crossover narrows the area both drivers work together, significantly reducing the unwanted interference between them.
Since the tweeter's new version crossover has a steeper slope, the tweeter is safer in case of overpower.
The upgrade is cheap, easy and reversible.
Neat page on upgrading the 601.
One other point, B&W uses no-name (ish) caps for low end, Mundorf MKP for mid-range and then graduate to Mundorf Supreme's for top shelf speakers.
I think the MKP's are a very good value ($7-$9 for most caps) so while you are in there I would upgrade.
Yeah, I know, I talk them up a lot, but I think they're bargains and under-valued. Personally I prefer Clarity.... but these are the steps I see B&W using.
One other point, B&W uses no-name (ish) caps for low end, Mundorf MKP for mid-range and then graduate to Mundorf Supreme's for top shelf speakers.
I think the MKP's are a very good value ($7-$9 for most caps) so while you are in there I would upgrade.
Yeah, I know, I talk them up a lot, but I think they're bargains and under-valued. Personally I prefer Clarity.... but these are the steps I see B&W using.
Hi just wondering if anyone could help me in the right direction concerning crossover network for Marantz HD770 4way I didn't get the crossovers so maybe I will need to make them or find them any ideas?
when I comes to the inductor is it critical that DCR ohmage be the same as listed on the datasheet?, for instance Marantz list a 1.2mh inductor at 6 ohm I have seen plenty of 1.2mh inductors but they only have very low DCR like 0.26 ohm.
If you want to replicate the original crossover, then yes, it's important to use the same DCR, if you use lower DCR inductor then put an appropriate resistor in series to it.
One place where different DCR 'might' be better is that the woofer's series inductor. But if you want an exact replica then use the original value.
A 1.2mH inductor with a DCR of 6ohms? Are you sure that's the inductor DCR and not the nominal impedance rating of the leg in question or overall speaker? Jantzen offer a 1.2mH air core in 29AWG that comes out at about 4.7ohm, so 6ohm would need something like 30AWG -very thin indeed, and to be honest, I'm struggling to think of a scenario in a passive crossover where that would be appropriate.
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