Hi there,
this is my first thread here in this forum. It seems to me that this
forum will be quite an excellent source of informations for my
future SOZ project (more about it in another thread). And here is
my first question:
The origin SOZ design has a balanced input, but my CD-Player
unfortunately has only an unbalanced source. I found a good
answer to this question on the Jensen-Transforer page. They
recommend to use an input transformer, this would be the best
solution for that. Is this true? Has anyone made experiences with
that?
It would be great if someone can give me a hint!
Thanks in advance!
Mallard
this is my first thread here in this forum. It seems to me that this
forum will be quite an excellent source of informations for my
future SOZ project (more about it in another thread). And here is
my first question:
The origin SOZ design has a balanced input, but my CD-Player
unfortunately has only an unbalanced source. I found a good
answer to this question on the Jensen-Transforer page. They
recommend to use an input transformer, this would be the best
solution for that. Is this true? Has anyone made experiences with
that?
It would be great if someone can give me a hint!
Thanks in advance!
Mallard
Easy.
Just ground the "cold" (negative) signal on the input and connect your CD to "hot" (positive) input and ground.
//magnus
Just ground the "cold" (negative) signal on the input and connect your CD to "hot" (positive) input and ground.
//magnus
amazing link!
I've got a new BOSOZ folder started with the information on the site linked to above. What an impressive job!
Inspirational..........
I've got a new BOSOZ folder started with the information on the site linked to above. What an impressive job!
Inspirational..........
in english you say
i will try to contact my friends girlfrend
she is from japan and as far as i remmember she can read corean to
i will post the results if any
i will try to contact my friends girlfrend
she is from japan and as far as i remmember she can read corean to
i will post the results if any
Mallard
The SOZ isn´t that happy with unbalanced input, I have tried it.
You did visit Jensen-Transformers homepage, and that´s why I remembered this nice and informative discussion here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6832&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
The SOZ isn´t that happy with unbalanced input, I have tried it.
You did visit Jensen-Transformers homepage, and that´s why I remembered this nice and informative discussion here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6832&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
So, what is the problem for you using the unbalanced input?
I've tried it, works fine.
You could build a BOSOZ pre amp, or something like it. Then you'll have balanced output. Simple and pretty cheap.
//magnus
I've tried it, works fine.
You could build a BOSOZ pre amp, or something like it. Then you'll have balanced output. Simple and pretty cheap.
//magnus
Shure it works, but you will get more distortion (not so perfect diffrential match), less gain and you also get some lower max. voltage swing at the output. SOZ does not have a Constant Current Source at the tail, if it had it woud be a better converter.
I agree that the BOSOZ would take care of thet and reasonable prised too.
I agree that the BOSOZ would take care of thet and reasonable prised too.
Henrik said:
Sorry I dont wanted to raise up such a big thread as you linked to. My Question is quite simple, I don't want to hear physical definitions and theorys.
Btw I don't know how much of it reflects only superstition.
Basically I only want to know what's the best choise for me in regard to how it sounds at the end! Thats all!
Thanks and Regards,
Mallard
Try out Steve Eddy´s suggestion in the last post of the thread and compare it to unbalanced mode. Go fro the best solution, it´s cheap to try anyway and don´t take much of your time.
"how it sounds in the end..."
Mallard. If this is truly your only question, Nelson has already answered it at the end of the BOSOZ article itself.
Note: these comments are from the master himself.
"a particularly good sounding circuit, significantly better than the Bride of Zen although I would be hard pressed to explain why".
"More liquid and greater depth".
So you should expect similar results IF you run the BOSOZ with balanced inputs FROM a balanced source AND balanced outs from the BOSOZ to an amp WITH balanced inputs.
If you unbalance the signal path anywhere you should not expect as much "performance".
Read the last page of the article and remember that the point of the project is balanced operation. If you don't run the thing balanced in and balanced out, you are starting to step away from the benefit and point of balanced operation.
Mallard. If this is truly your only question, Nelson has already answered it at the end of the BOSOZ article itself.
Note: these comments are from the master himself.
"a particularly good sounding circuit, significantly better than the Bride of Zen although I would be hard pressed to explain why".
"More liquid and greater depth".
So you should expect similar results IF you run the BOSOZ with balanced inputs FROM a balanced source AND balanced outs from the BOSOZ to an amp WITH balanced inputs.
If you unbalance the signal path anywhere you should not expect as much "performance".
Read the last page of the article and remember that the point of the project is balanced operation. If you don't run the thing balanced in and balanced out, you are starting to step away from the benefit and point of balanced operation.
Re: "how it sounds in the end..."
Timo,
I totally agree with you and the master himself 🙂 but that is a point I can't change anyway!
It's not a matter of what I would like to do rather than a matter of what is the best way
for my situation?
I have an unbalanced output (that is a fact) and I want to switch it to a balanced input
within my SoZ.
Now the question is what is the best way to convert my unbalanced output to the
necessary balanced input? Is it better to use an Jensen-input transformer within the SoZ
or should I simply connect the middle-lead of the unbalanced source to + of the balanced
input and the shield to the - ?
Or is there even a better way to do so?
Mallard
timo said:
Timo,
I totally agree with you and the master himself 🙂 but that is a point I can't change anyway!
It's not a matter of what I would like to do rather than a matter of what is the best way
for my situation?
I have an unbalanced output (that is a fact) and I want to switch it to a balanced input
within my SoZ.
Now the question is what is the best way to convert my unbalanced output to the
necessary balanced input? Is it better to use an Jensen-input transformer within the SoZ
or should I simply connect the middle-lead of the unbalanced source to + of the balanced
input and the shield to the - ?
Or is there even a better way to do so?
Mallard
Re: Re: "how it sounds in the end..."
If you ask me, I would tell you to build the BOSOZ, which is born for this purpose..
If you only want to use it as a converter, it would be very simple and cheap (Fig.1 in the balzenpre.pdf article).
You could even build it as a front-end inside the SOZ's cabinet (with it's own PSU though).
Mallard said:
If you ask me, I would tell you to build the BOSOZ, which is born for this purpose..
If you only want to use it as a converter, it would be very simple and cheap (Fig.1 in the balzenpre.pdf article).
You could even build it as a front-end inside the SOZ's cabinet (with it's own PSU though).
Re: Re: "how it sounds in the end..."
I decouple all digital sources from my preamp by an input transformer.
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/1544a.pdf
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/7901_02.pdf
Cheers
Mallard, use the transformers. There isn't any need to spend the big bucks on the Jensens when you have Lundahl,Sowter, Bartolucci, AE and S&B all within the EU. Others too probably. With the trans you'll get complete isolation of earths as a side benefit. This isn't "superstition" but standard studio / broadcast / telecommunications practice for over a century. It works very well, and it's only drawback I see is for the expense of the transformers. Iron doesn't wear out, so you can sell them later for little loss, or transpose them into another project.Mallard said:
I decouple all digital sources from my preamp by an input transformer.
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/1544a.pdf
http://www.lundahl.se/pdfs/datash/7901_02.pdf
Cheers
Hi all,
The output with transformers is very good solution, but with companys as Jensen, very expensive.
If you desire made any experiments but more cheap, in the catalogue of Monacor ( www.monacor.com ) you can get a transformer LTR-110, Order Nº 21.0500. The last time that I buy some the price are about 7 Euros. The same in Dolars.
Also you can made a balanced output with two DRV-134, but this solution perhaps need that you made other supply.
And, with two INA-134, two DRW-134, and a potentiometer between, you can made a balanced preamp. Well, also conectors, supply and so on.
I buy the INA-134 and DRV-134 in Selectronic. www.selectronic.fr
Happy days,
Raúl Couto
The output with transformers is very good solution, but with companys as Jensen, very expensive.
If you desire made any experiments but more cheap, in the catalogue of Monacor ( www.monacor.com ) you can get a transformer LTR-110, Order Nº 21.0500. The last time that I buy some the price are about 7 Euros. The same in Dolars.
Also you can made a balanced output with two DRV-134, but this solution perhaps need that you made other supply.
And, with two INA-134, two DRW-134, and a potentiometer between, you can made a balanced preamp. Well, also conectors, supply and so on.
I buy the INA-134 and DRV-134 in Selectronic. www.selectronic.fr
Happy days,
Raúl Couto
Some guys recommend BOZOZ as a unbalanced/balanced "converter" even if it does the job the problem is the same as with the truly balanced powert amps.
The BOZOZ (the way I understand) are best driven from a balanced source as well.
IMO the best way is to put a Jensen trafo at the unbalanced DAC.
This is something I will do myself some day when I have time.
/Peter
The BOZOZ (the way I understand) are best driven from a balanced source as well.
IMO the best way is to put a Jensen trafo at the unbalanced DAC.
This is something I will do myself some day when I have time.
/Peter
As far as I understand, the transformer could be a good unbalanced-balanced converter with respect to the noise, but not with respect to the music signal. So, if SOZ is no good with unbalanced signal input, the transformer is not recommendable to be used as a signal splitter.
I would like to recommend a preamp having unbalanced input and balanced output. The original BOSOZ can be simply modified as an unbalanced-balanced converter. If it is further modified with stiff current sources made of transistors, it could become even better converter. Actually, I am using this between my CD player and X-amp. Working great for really good sound.
I would like to recommend a preamp having unbalanced input and balanced output. The original BOSOZ can be simply modified as an unbalanced-balanced converter. If it is further modified with stiff current sources made of transistors, it could become even better converter. Actually, I am using this between my CD player and X-amp. Working great for really good sound.
"but not with respect to the music signal."
Though I agree that some (all?) trafos has limitations, what is it you feel that the "big" problem is with the better mic/line trafos?
The best Jensen products has this data;
JT-16-A:
20Hz dist 0.025%
1kHz dist 0.001%
20Hz-20kHz-0.06dB -0.00dB
-3dB at 220kHz .
-1dB at 1.5Hz.
Deviation from linear phase: 1 degree at 20Hz.
I have heard the Jensen trafos in active x-overs as well as SOTA tube-preamps, and even though I have not listened to the same products without the trafos, I must say the sound of these products was really good.
Audio Artistry "Dvorak" loudspeaker system and
DW Fearn class A triod mic-preamp.
/Peter
Though I agree that some (all?) trafos has limitations, what is it you feel that the "big" problem is with the better mic/line trafos?
The best Jensen products has this data;
JT-16-A:
20Hz dist 0.025%
1kHz dist 0.001%
20Hz-20kHz-0.06dB -0.00dB
-3dB at 220kHz .
-1dB at 1.5Hz.
Deviation from linear phase: 1 degree at 20Hz.
I have heard the Jensen trafos in active x-overs as well as SOTA tube-preamps, and even though I have not listened to the same products without the trafos, I must say the sound of these products was really good.
Audio Artistry "Dvorak" loudspeaker system and
DW Fearn class A triod mic-preamp.
/Peter
For my opinion above, I was referring to the 2.3 (the unbalanced input stage).
I would like to interpret the 2.2 transformer as a better fit to the balanced input stage (receiving symmetric signals). Sorry for the confusion.
Reference: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf
I would like to interpret the 2.2 transformer as a better fit to the balanced input stage (receiving symmetric signals). Sorry for the confusion.
Reference: http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/an003.pdf
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