Well, if it was me, I'd start in a controlled environment before going outdoors. A hydro experiment could show effect clearly in few growth cycles.
Or, you could grow in soil in thin walled containers with contact transducers on the outside of the container. Roots seeks the limits of their world - the container walls, so the wall would become a contact interface, specially when watering and spaces gets filled with water for extra penetration. An ultrasonic grow tub
! Still not in the ground, but possible in the field...
We can't expect a biologist to be completely au fait with physics.
The principle of setting up an experiment to measure the intensity of ultrasound at a given depth in soil should not, however, be an alien concept.
Rabilo does not currently possess an utrasound transducer of sufficient power to ensure sufficient transmission of energy across the air-soil interface.
There's too much beating about the bush going on (pun intended) and no experimental action.
that principle of physics is called the third sound of tartini and is notoriously well known, what's wrong with it?
The terzo souno or third tone, which is created from two tones: https://www.teoria.com/en/articles/2017/sounds/03.php#:~:text=The Italian violinist Giuseppe Tartini (1692-1770) spoke of,is two octaves lower than the bass note.
All down to the Italian violinist Giuseppe Tartini (1692-1770) - is there a musician in the house?
EDIT: This has to do with combination tones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_tone
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All of us on this forum should be aware of the consequences of the Tartini effect:
"The fact that our auditory system is able to reconstruct the lower harmonics from the higher harmonics explains why we can listen to music on sound equipment that is limited in its ability to reproduce low sounds."
"The fact that our auditory system is able to reconstruct the lower harmonics from the higher harmonics explains why we can listen to music on sound equipment that is limited in its ability to reproduce low sounds."
Unfortunately, it just happens in your ears.
Or does it? https://www.newscientist.com/articl...layed-by-violins-turn-out-to-be-a-real-sound/
Penetration can surely happen, but only a small percentage of the energy will cross the air-soil barrier.
You would have to obtain such a transducer and then devise a method of measuring the intensity of the ultrasound at the required soil depth in order to tell if the transducer is powerful enough for your purposes.
EDIT: I'm only guessing, but perhaps the acoustic impedance mismatch will be reduced if the soil is very granular. You need to suck it and see.
I mean try it and see - don't suck the soil!
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Dear Rabbilo, reflection, refraction etc. would be the least of your worries when you meet your new friend which is absorption. Growing the plant in water-based environment appears to be a very good idea, since water is not only a decent conductor of sound but also transparent (mostly), allowing you to literally see the growth of your plant.
While ultrasound does penetrate soil, it is hard to to imagine how far and how much it does. I would suggest consulting scientists dealing with Non-destructive testing (NDT).
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Seems to be science done already. From the abstract:
"As an example, we examine the growth of leaf lettuce in hydroponics with exposure to 28-kHz ultrasound and dissolved oxygen supersaturation up to 36 mg/L at 20 °C. Our results show that exposure to the ultrasound of peak-to-peak pressure at 20 kPa or larger works as the growth inhibitor of the leaves and the roots, while the oxygen supersaturation as the growth promoter, without any degradation of chlorophyll in the leaves."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1350417718312422
"As an example, we examine the growth of leaf lettuce in hydroponics with exposure to 28-kHz ultrasound and dissolved oxygen supersaturation up to 36 mg/L at 20 °C. Our results show that exposure to the ultrasound of peak-to-peak pressure at 20 kPa or larger works as the growth inhibitor of the leaves and the roots, while the oxygen supersaturation as the growth promoter, without any degradation of chlorophyll in the leaves."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1350417718312422
@AllenB
@Andrew Eckhardt
@Galu
@newvirus2008
Good evening guys, hopefully today or tomorrow, I will publish a new thread in which I have an idea to overcome the impedance problem by using lower frequencies, which by interfering produce addition and subtraction frequencies. I hope to post it as soon as possible, now I'm working and I have shifts, see you soon guys 🤗🤗
@Andrew Eckhardt
@Galu
@newvirus2008
Good evening guys, hopefully today or tomorrow, I will publish a new thread in which I have an idea to overcome the impedance problem by using lower frequencies, which by interfering produce addition and subtraction frequencies. I hope to post it as soon as possible, now I'm working and I have shifts, see you soon guys 🤗🤗
Do combination tones actually exist in the physical environment?
Or are they produced in the listener's ear due to the non-linearity of the hearing system, or are they psyschological constructs only?
Read the lower section of the extract below entitled "Combination Tones" (ignore The Curuso legend lives on).
Or are they produced in the listener's ear due to the non-linearity of the hearing system, or are they psyschological constructs only?
Read the lower section of the extract below entitled "Combination Tones" (ignore The Curuso legend lives on).
@Galu
@AllenB
no no it is absolutely not a psychological construction of mine, it is the mixing of two waves having a small difference in frequency and producing other waves with addition and subtraction frequencies. however I will make a new thread because the project is new even if it resumes this one. I have particular problems with calculations and formulas since I don't know them, but if you give me a site where there are all the formulas relating to sound, that is, absorption, attenuation, refraction, impedance referring to frequency and power, then I can do alone
@AllenB
no no it is absolutely not a psychological construction of mine, it is the mixing of two waves having a small difference in frequency and producing other waves with addition and subtraction frequencies. however I will make a new thread because the project is new even if it resumes this one. I have particular problems with calculations and formulas since I don't know them, but if you give me a site where there are all the formulas relating to sound, that is, absorption, attenuation, refraction, impedance referring to frequency and power, then I can do alone
What is your rate of pay?
I would require to be suitably renumerated for such a wide-ranging task!
Frequency dependent acoustic attenuation calculations appear to involve a complex 'power law' frequency dependent equation.
The only understandable piece of information I have found is that in the case of water the attenuation is proportional to the square of the frequency.
I think I am correct in saying there is no simple formula for acoustic attenuation which links the three variables to which you refer.
Is there an acoustician in the house?
The only understandable piece of information I have found is that in the case of water the attenuation is proportional to the square of the frequency.
I think I am correct in saying there is no simple formula for acoustic attenuation which links the three variables to which you refer.
Is there an acoustician in the house?
May as well just yell at the plant, sorry, but those frequencies aren’t going to couple through the dirt, will have dissipated and been reduced to another band altogether.
Therapeutic agitation of human tissue starts at maybe 200khz and is usually up well into mhz.
Maybe just a heating pad, is what we used in the family nursery business?
Sorry, I didn’t read all six pages…
Therapeutic agitation of human tissue starts at maybe 200khz and is usually up well into mhz.
Maybe just a heating pad, is what we used in the family nursery business?
Sorry, I didn’t read all six pages…