Hello all. Would like to share my new project build. This is a prototype for my Bass and Synth amp as well as a small but potent PA speaker focussing on a musical sound delivery. Inputs will be my tube based Uf'fornica preamps, tone and summing amp and headphone. The power amplifier boards are well regarded commercial class D units from forum member Erica.C and contain a built-in mains power supply and features aux power outs for fans and preamp. Driver setup is similar to 2.1 and based on a pair of 3" full range drivers and a single 10" bass driver
Max cab size is fixed to 50 cm x 35 cm x 35 cm
The drivers themselves will be chosen after auditioning a few units from various brands
Max cab size is fixed to 50 cm x 35 cm x 35 cm
The drivers themselves will be chosen after auditioning a few units from various brands
The 3" full range drivers work well as desktop monitors for my DJ rig and match the 10" in output very well. What would be the reason for them not being easily heard by a performer over the live PA rig? The smallest 3" driver that I have features in THX rated game systems and is well capable of exceeding 100db near field and intended for loud synth music. The larger 3" drivers are even more capable. On top of that, in keeping with my Uf'fornica concept, the internal left and right speakers are bypassed when larger passive loudspeakers are plugged into the aux speaker outs, turning it into a 3-piece system
Freecad model of the bass driver section. This is 48cm wide and 18L, tuned to 40hz. Today I tried to get Bunnings to cut the MDF for me, but their wall saw was down. Tomorrow I am driving out to Bunnings in the next town. I am ok with MDF for prototyping
The SPL and excursion plot for the 10" in the 18L net cavity, signal is 300w
The SPL and excursion plot for the 10" in the 18L net cavity, signal is 300w
The complete MDF skeleton model, including some of the electronics and full range driver cavities. This is all the wood work apart from the location holes for the fastners and such. Once those details are sorted, I'll add them to the model so that I can CNC them into the panels prior to assembly of any additional units. This project should warm up my creativity for breaking away from the fender and marshal lookalikes and black boxes. I am building for a presentation that freshens up retro appeal with correct use of colour and modern aesthetics
THX rated computer speakers is pure sticker marketing, rated at "near field" yes with each speaker about 1' from your ear, 100db full range from a 3" is not likely unless its a massive compression driver and horn and then its not full range and probably perform poorly at high frequency's as well
DJ monitors your console must be in a quiet spot to hear a 3" full range driver, you dont use head phones?
On my keyboard set up(Toy synth, KORG Kross2) Im using a set of Edifier S3000pro's which is barely adequate, allowing for the dynamic range needed on a synth they are only capable of about 85db in near field without running into audible distortion that the inbuilt DSP starts limiting to save damage to the 6.5" mid and planar tweeter(120wrms and 8wrms respectively), IMHO dunno how a little 3" full range could even be a suggestion?
DJ monitors your console must be in a quiet spot to hear a 3" full range driver, you dont use head phones?
On my keyboard set up(Toy synth, KORG Kross2) Im using a set of Edifier S3000pro's which is barely adequate, allowing for the dynamic range needed on a synth they are only capable of about 85db in near field without running into audible distortion that the inbuilt DSP starts limiting to save damage to the 6.5" mid and planar tweeter(120wrms and 8wrms respectively), IMHO dunno how a little 3" full range could even be a suggestion?
Hello Harry
The drivers have been thoroughly tested in the target venues and situations. The Edifiers do not compare, as they cannot even carry my voice while singing let alone the punch need for a decent game experience. I bring these things home all the time from the reuse centre. The 3" drivers have a prodigious output, but I am tired of that discussion. Instead, allow me to ask you some questions
Very good DJ consoles have outputs labelled main, booth/monitor and headphones. Lower range ones like mine are sent through a regular console to gain the extra output. A Roland DJ-202 and Yamaha MG12XU in my case. Do you understand the reason for the booth/monitor output in a DJ rig?
What is the thermal rating and driver diameter of the compression drivers that you mention without a crossover?
What happens when you take a high excursion and thermal rated 3" and 3.5" full range and high pass them 300-500hz and then located it right next to the substantial woofer? What does the heavy lifting? How does even your ribbon compare in this situation? (200wrms + 200wrms DVC and 40wrms + 40wrm all respectively, all in one box)
Had all the MDF cut today. One sheet yielded enough for two cabs. I’ll do the juniorcat version with the jfet based Uffornica preamps and tone controls. These 7” SVC and 3” pair (140wrms and 35wrms+35wrms) are from the first prototype with a solid two years of use in various venues for school and concert and concerts prior to that as DJ booth/desk monitors for five years work
We got back home from the town where we got the MDF from pretty late so glueing will be tomorrow
Working on another halted project tonight while my wife is studying. I have only been playing fretless as I prefer the sound and my thumb just knows what to pluck and fingers knows where to lay when playing along. I want to learn the theory side and picked up a fretted PJ bass from the only music shop in town a while ago
Being a lefty meant only one item to choose from in the store. The finish is plain black and I hate it. I have been doing her up and just working on a wet tiger appearance. And yes I would rather call her wet something other and more acceptably, “Sonehri”
We got back home from the town where we got the MDF from pretty late so glueing will be tomorrow
Working on another halted project tonight while my wife is studying. I have only been playing fretless as I prefer the sound and my thumb just knows what to pluck and fingers knows where to lay when playing along. I want to learn the theory side and picked up a fretted PJ bass from the only music shop in town a while ago
Being a lefty meant only one item to choose from in the store. The finish is plain black and I hate it. I have been doing her up and just working on a wet tiger appearance. And yes I would rather call her wet something other and more acceptably, “Sonehri”
Trying to glue this up today and it's not happening. Most of the cuts are off. 290.7mm has been cut, 297mm and so on. A couple of bits are short by 10mm. There is enough in the offcuts to make up for the short bits. I might be able to still glue and trim all the excess with a router. The whole point was to keep this dust less at home. Our local shop has a master on the saw, so this has never been an issue before. I need to look into some CNC DIY forums to see if my machine can be modified with longer rails
Also applied a top coat to the front of the bass to lock it all in. The rear is already ready for wet sanding. This is done the same way as applying skin or feathers to fishing rod blanks. I did extensive work with layering and inlays in a previous enterprise
Also applied a top coat to the front of the bass to lock it all in. The rear is already ready for wet sanding. This is done the same way as applying skin or feathers to fishing rod blanks. I did extensive work with layering and inlays in a previous enterprise
Actually the Edifiers would be a very good gaming 2ch set up, they have good output down to approx 35hz sounds like there is a small subwoofer connected to them, I've heard a number of bookshelf speakers with a bigger bass driver have no where near the bass capability of these, Edifier actually marketed them as studio monitors and they were well regarded by reviewers.
Yes handing the bass duties to a dedicated bass driver and H/P should increase their mid~high spl output capabilities and decrease their intermodulation distortion, but like all things a 3"covering from 300Hz up to 20Khz will be a compromise, at lower frequency's SPL would be limited(distorted) and at high frequency's a 3"cone will be beaming its head off, a 3" cone for high spl sweet spot would be something like 1.5Khz to 6Khz so you'd really need a 3way.
Fullrange drivers IMHO are for dedicated 2ch listening with a very narrow sweet spot(because they beam at high frequency)or for BT and gaming speakers.
Anyways dont let my ramblings discourage you, go for it anything to do with speakers Im into it
I guess for cueing up the next song? As you would guess Im not a DJ...
If they made a true 3" outlet compression driver the output and thermal rating would be very high like most PA gear, there's some B&C coaxial with a 2"outlet dia I'd like to try out but being the country where we are from probably over $1K ea Id imagine
What are these high excursion 3" and 3.5" full range drivers? are they BRM's or something
Yes handing the bass duties to a dedicated bass driver and H/P should increase their mid~high spl output capabilities and decrease their intermodulation distortion, but like all things a 3"covering from 300Hz up to 20Khz will be a compromise, at lower frequency's SPL would be limited(distorted) and at high frequency's a 3"cone will be beaming its head off, a 3" cone for high spl sweet spot would be something like 1.5Khz to 6Khz so you'd really need a 3way.
Fullrange drivers IMHO are for dedicated 2ch listening with a very narrow sweet spot(because they beam at high frequency)or for BT and gaming speakers.
Anyways dont let my ramblings discourage you, go for it anything to do with speakers Im into it
Actually the Edifiers would be a very good gaming 2ch set up, they have good output down to approx 35hz sounds like there is a small subwoofer connected to them, I've heard a number of bookshelf speakers with a bigger bass driver have no where near the bass capability of these, Edifier actually marketed them as studio monitors and they were well regarded by reviewers.
I guess for cueing up the next song? As you would guess Im not a DJ...
If they made a true 3" outlet compression driver the output and thermal rating would be very high like most PA gear, there's some B&C coaxial with a 2"outlet dia I'd like to try out but being the country where we are from probably over $1K ea Id imagine
What are these high excursion 3" and 3.5" full range drivers? are they BRM's or something
Yes handing the bass duties to a dedicated bass driver and H/P should increase their mid~high spl output capabilities and decrease their intermodulation distortion, but like all things a 3"covering from 300Hz up to 20Khz will be a compromise, at lower frequency's SPL would be limited(distorted) and at high frequency's a 3"cone will be beaming its head off, a 3" cone for high spl sweet spot would be something like 1.5Khz to 6Khz so you'd really need a 3way.
Fullrange drivers IMHO are for dedicated 2ch listening with a very narrow sweet spot(because they beam at high frequency)or for BT and gaming speakers.
Anyways dont let my ramblings discourage you, go for it anything to do with speakers Im into it
Harry, we are not on the same page anymore. You state that the Edifiers make a suitable studio monitor with its 8w teeter and 120w woofer. Yet you insist that the 40w 3" with a 10" 400w is not up to monitoring a synth? Are you talking about a synth free studio for the Edifiers
Let's let it rest that the 3" full ranges in conjunction with a serious woofer are more than capable of letting a DJ mirror what playing on the main system. The DJ desk is rarely in a position to allow monitoring from the main speakers. Headphones are used for cueing and selection
Synths of all sorts have become standard DJ gear. Things like shorter Keyboards like my Roland JDXI or groove boxes, which are also synths. My DJ-202 mixer has built in drum synths
Lets looks at a FaitalPro
https://www.parts-express.com/FaitalPro-HF201-2-Compression-Horn-Driver-8-Ohm-294-1045?quantity=1
100wrms only after the 900hz crossover as been applied. It is designed to be run down to 500hz but at the expense of thermal which would now be a lot lower than 100wrms, maybe 60w at best
Let's compare it to the DS18 3.5" full range. This is rated 40wrms without a crossover and with a 500hz crossover, it can handle a lot more power than the FaitalPro at the same crossover point. The best thing is that they actually sound very non fatiguing when playing loud. Much like British hi-fi speakers played out loud off big amps. Perfect for an in your face desktop monitor in a two-way with a 6-10" extended range bass driver for a synth or keyboard or DJ
The crazy thing about this amp build is that it's primarily a bass amp that is also performs very well as a synth/DJ monitor, small PA and personal music system. As a bass amp, this should exceed the performance of the first prototype, the bass amp that I made for my daughter in another thread
Trying to get the guy in Bunnings Maryborough to understand the nesting was painful. He was a junior and the only guy in timber on shift. I only paid $12 as the sheet was only $2 being the capping sheet. $10 for the cutting. Took him over 1.5 hrs. Not worth the grief. The local Bunnings panel saw wonth be fixed till the new year
Harry, Hervey Bay is a beautiful holiday location. If you are ever up this way, please drop in and audition this thing
There's one thing your missing comparing these two that puts them worlds apart, that FaitalPro HF201 will have more SPL with just 1w than the DS18 can output safely, HF201 has 108dB @1w the DS18 is 86dB @1w thats a 22dB difference... the DS18 @ 108dB continuous would probably see the smoke coming out... one of the reasons you see compression drivers over small cone mid/tweeters in PA work.
Edifier state its a studio monitor, I stated they're just barely adequate for my synth needs but are pretty good for the price(about $800ish)
I only have these because at the time I didnt want to dive down the rabbit burrow of DIY'ing a full system and spending 3x the coin because I wouldnt be able to help myself
, sure I'd end up with bigger and way more capable system but it would have taken 6mths of procrastination before I even started building it!Hervey Bay, lucky bugger nice area that, Im down the Spencer Gulf in SA
Ah, I see the hiccup. Not all PA work is in a stadium, and not all venues call for ear smashing levels of high frequency output. The larger venues usually mic the amps and mix the instruments to the house system for the audience. The type of amp under construction here is more for sitting on a desk behind a synth or the floor beside a bassist. As a bass amp, it out basses the large Yamaha active PA speakers in use around Hervey Bay. As a personal synth monitor, it appears to have the potential to outclass any other 1 box solution. The older, smaller 3" 35wrms + 3" 35wrmsand 7"140wrms in one box makes for the best sounding rafter mount system dotted around a resort's deck. Plenty of parties there for my older version. The best part is that the 3 drivers and the amp and PSU costs AUD $160 for the whole set and has been solid performers for the past 12yrs for me with zero driver or amp/PSU damage. The new 3.5" and 10" combo and Eric's amps together cost over $500 for the set. The local music shop has already auditioned the first prototype and wants to carry it in the shop
How about two years, that's how long I have been sitting on the 10" woofer, and about a year with the rest of the parts! Plenty of SA plated caravans holidaying here man
The MDF has been very badly cut. All the wall heights were cut 2mm short and aren't square. Some cuts were off by 10mm and some 4mm. Squaring up has left the boards even shorter. I think this bunch is a write-off. This design is also poor for wood cutting efficiency and increases the tediousness levels of this project. Turning the box around in my mind, I think I can reduce panel count by 5 pieces, if I move the electronics to a different area
It will be better if I did the new box cuts using 18mm ply instead of MDF too. I am tired of bad cuts at the hardware shop. I started the following thread regarding the table saw that I will be getting and a mod project for an accurate and repeatable cutting system
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ble-saw-3d-printed-parts.406924/#post-7545333
It will be better if I did the new box cuts using 18mm ply instead of MDF too. I am tired of bad cuts at the hardware shop. I started the following thread regarding the table saw that I will be getting and a mod project for an accurate and repeatable cutting system
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ble-saw-3d-printed-parts.406924/#post-7545333
Had the boards cut at the local Bunnings today. Couldn't find any 18mm ply so decided to with MDF for the prototype. I was attended by a senior who is usually in the paint section. He did a fine job, and it should come together nicely. Still, the mucking about it took to get all the cuts right was annoyingly painful and time-consuming,. My speaker saw project makes more sense after experiencing what it takes to get a box cut right on a full size pro machine
Also finished up on the 3D model for all the woodwork needed and baffle cutouts
Also finished up on the 3D model for all the woodwork needed and baffle cutouts
I am using this thread to think out loud and hoping that someone would catch any flawed thinking. This box here will be used for this instrument amp, a smaller instrument amp, also be used for the basis of a small musical sub, a 2.1 system and a 2 way speaker basis. The parts that will fit onto this box will fit the other items or be the basis for other items. Such is the beauty of modern technologies like 3D printing and laser routers. I'll be best to start with the smaller instrument amp, as everything else just builds on that
This is the amp that has been already in testing for two years. So first, I'll focus on turning this into Lil'Bagy. A little tribute to our first and only cat that ran away during the interstate move 3 years ago. Bagy (Bagheera) was a melanistic cat. He was black, but in the sun you could see a hint of stripes and spots shine through. This is my take on the items used to make my daughter's bass amp
This is the amp that has been already in testing for two years. So first, I'll focus on turning this into Lil'Bagy. A little tribute to our first and only cat that ran away during the interstate move 3 years ago. Bagy (Bagheera) was a melanistic cat. He was black, but in the sun you could see a hint of stripes and spots shine through. This is my take on the items used to make my daughter's bass amp