ucd400hg
I guess, this question is for Jan-Peter.
I'd like to know, if there's any difference in sound quality between UCD180HG and UCD400HG. I saw when it was first announced something like UCD180HG is extra updated with new power FETs. Does this mean, it'd outperform UCD400HG?
Thanks,
igy137
I guess, this question is for Jan-Peter.
I'd like to know, if there's any difference in sound quality between UCD180HG and UCD400HG. I saw when it was first announced something like UCD180HG is extra updated with new power FETs. Does this mean, it'd outperform UCD400HG?
Thanks,
igy137
Asgard,
If you need 600W for music use, try a Coldamp BP4078.
I once connected two of them, each module was driving 2 enclosures in parallel (each being a 2 x 15" + tweeter Yamaha!) and obtained more than 37Vrms peaks (meaning >650W / 2 ohm per channel). Overcurrent protection didn't trigger with music.
I was feeding both channels with a SPS80 PSU, so it is also capable of quite a bit more than 800W.
These are quite rudged toys!
If you need 600W for music use, try a Coldamp BP4078.
I once connected two of them, each module was driving 2 enclosures in parallel (each being a 2 x 15" + tweeter Yamaha!) and obtained more than 37Vrms peaks (meaning >650W / 2 ohm per channel). Overcurrent protection didn't trigger with music.
I was feeding both channels with a SPS80 PSU, so it is also capable of quite a bit more than 800W.
These are quite rudged toys!
Re: ucd400hg
There is no sound difference between the UcD180HG and UcD400HG, only difference in power. Indeed we did upgrade the FET of the UcD180HG for a version with lower gate charge to improve the performance. But power is not much increased, however the limit will be now close to 200W because of the better output coil.
Cheers,
Jan-Peter
igy137 said:
There is no sound difference between the UcD180HG and UcD400HG, only difference in power. Indeed we did upgrade the FET of the UcD180HG for a version with lower gate charge to improve the performance. But power is not much increased, however the limit will be now close to 200W because of the better output coil.
Cheers,
Jan-Peter
Pierre said:Hello, Jan.
I had just read this:
and thought he was interested in getting some more power, that's why I explained my experience with coldamps. No pun intended and not intention to hijack the thread
Best regards,
Pierre
Hi,
Here we explain our way of IM measurement.
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/IMD.pdf
Cheers,
Jan-Peter
UcD 400 in sealed box?
Hi folks,
Has anyone built a UcD amp in a sealed case? if so, did you have to add any additional heatsinking to any parts?
Im building a UcD400 based amp that needs to be ruggedised and dust-proof.
I have a dual UcD180 amp that I built a while back, and have found that the modules get quite hot internally, requiring a ventilated case - i think its the switching transformer that is getting hot. Im wondering if a sealed aluminium case, with the UcD module bolted directly to the think aluminium base, and an extra but of aluminium or copper acting as a heat pipe attached to the transformer would be possible.
any suggestions/ideas/feedback?
cheers,
ben
Hi folks,
Has anyone built a UcD amp in a sealed case? if so, did you have to add any additional heatsinking to any parts?
Im building a UcD400 based amp that needs to be ruggedised and dust-proof.
I have a dual UcD180 amp that I built a while back, and have found that the modules get quite hot internally, requiring a ventilated case - i think its the switching transformer that is getting hot. Im wondering if a sealed aluminium case, with the UcD module bolted directly to the think aluminium base, and an extra but of aluminium or copper acting as a heat pipe attached to the transformer would be possible.
any suggestions/ideas/feedback?
cheers,
ben
Re: UcD 400 in sealed box?
Hi Ben,
I think Hypex recommends vents, but if the case is large enough, and it is all aluminum, you might just be fine, provided your ambient isn't high, like direct sunlight....
If this is for pro use, as it sounds like it might be, a small fan just to circulate the air would help much.
You also might consider adding a internal overtemp shutdown.
I believe I read the UCD maximum ambient is on the DS. I recall 65C ambient (around module) and 90C heatsink (burning hot).
I've never found my UCD400's to get hot at all, but they actually have a heat sink. The inductor run a tad warm, perhaps even hot to some peoples touch, but not serious. I believe the UCD400 inductor is improved over the old UCD180's though.
If amp will be used hard though, I'd use a fan. If its clean music listening... then you likely will be running at about 12dB down from maximum output, which is not going to stress things much. (This is assuming full range, biamp levels have lower crest factors.)
Finally, do what an amp builder would do. Build it, put a temp sensor inside, and crank it hard at about half power for an hour while monitoring the temp. Keep in mind your experimental ambient temp also needs to be noted as you'll see a rise in temp over room temp. If its say 25C in your room, and 50C inside, then you know your amp is likely safe up to say 90C-50C+25C or 65C were anyone listening would be dead soon!
Also, a smallish heatsink to the outside will help keep the heat out of the box. One might actually insulate the inside of the plate the heatsink mounts too to keep this heat out of the box.
I realize I didn't answer your question, but I hope that helps.
I suspect that Jan-Peter will tell you how hot the inductor should get.
anomalous said:
Hi Ben,
I think Hypex recommends vents, but if the case is large enough, and it is all aluminum, you might just be fine, provided your ambient isn't high, like direct sunlight....
If this is for pro use, as it sounds like it might be, a small fan just to circulate the air would help much.
You also might consider adding a internal overtemp shutdown.
I believe I read the UCD maximum ambient is on the DS. I recall 65C ambient (around module) and 90C heatsink (burning hot).
I've never found my UCD400's to get hot at all, but they actually have a heat sink. The inductor run a tad warm, perhaps even hot to some peoples touch, but not serious. I believe the UCD400 inductor is improved over the old UCD180's though.
If amp will be used hard though, I'd use a fan. If its clean music listening... then you likely will be running at about 12dB down from maximum output, which is not going to stress things much. (This is assuming full range, biamp levels have lower crest factors.)
Finally, do what an amp builder would do. Build it, put a temp sensor inside, and crank it hard at about half power for an hour while monitoring the temp. Keep in mind your experimental ambient temp also needs to be noted as you'll see a rise in temp over room temp. If its say 25C in your room, and 50C inside, then you know your amp is likely safe up to say 90C-50C+25C or 65C were anyone listening would be dead soon!
Also, a smallish heatsink to the outside will help keep the heat out of the box. One might actually insulate the inside of the plate the heatsink mounts too to keep this heat out of the box.
I realize I didn't answer your question, but I hope that helps.
I suspect that Jan-Peter will tell you how hot the inductor should get.
sealed box UcD400
it is for 'semi-pro' use. running a small PA system that gets used in out of the way places that are sometimes very dusty.
I will ultimately build 4 modules (UcD400+SupplyST+Toroid), in custom cases that are 2 rack units high and 4.75in wide, allowing me to install 4 of them side by side in a 2RU road case. the cases will be made from folded 2mm aluminium sheet, and i will probably use a heatsink as the front panel, with connectors and power switch at the rear. in this situation, a small internal fan could possibly ventilate the modules through a filter of some kind, but if i can make the cooling completely passive, i'd be much happier.
cheers,
ben
Portlandmike said:
it is for 'semi-pro' use. running a small PA system that gets used in out of the way places that are sometimes very dusty.
I will ultimately build 4 modules (UcD400+SupplyST+Toroid), in custom cases that are 2 rack units high and 4.75in wide, allowing me to install 4 of them side by side in a 2RU road case. the cases will be made from folded 2mm aluminium sheet, and i will probably use a heatsink as the front panel, with connectors and power switch at the rear. in this situation, a small internal fan could possibly ventilate the modules through a filter of some kind, but if i can make the cooling completely passive, i'd be much happier.
cheers,
ben
Re: sealed box UcD400
Ben,
There is no magic about outside air vs convection. Its just a heat flow issue. If you move the air around, the whole case will be warmer (i.e. the bottom will get warm too, not just the top.) but it may be enough. what you discribe is very dense though.
Again, I'd build it and measure it first, see how far off you are and you might get by. Try to thermally connect anything you can to the case, like the bridges, and the toriod even. It PA applications, with limiters and such, you can start to generate lots of heat from the transformer. Oversizing the tranny can help. Avoiding to much supply cap (i.e. minimizing RMS currents in the transformers) can also help.
The UCD's are effecient, and run about 6 watts each pluse I2R losses. You might even attempt to isolate the heat from the xfrmr from the area around the UCD's convection wise.
I'd take a bit of time to calculate heat dissipation in all the big elements. in the UCD's, you know they do 6W sitting there, and are 90% effecient. For the transformer, you can calculate that too based on effeciency, but make some effort to calculate the real RMS current for a full bridge load into a cap.
I know you have a vision for the package already, but surface area is key for dissipating the heat without a fan. Also, I think you should use a heatsink on the front to have any chance.
I mount my ucd400 on a big heatsink, (its in an old A/B amp chassis) and the T-bar isn't even warm, thus all the heat is out of the chassis.
Good Luck
Portland Mike
anomalous said:
Ben,
There is no magic about outside air vs convection. Its just a heat flow issue. If you move the air around, the whole case will be warmer (i.e. the bottom will get warm too, not just the top.) but it may be enough. what you discribe is very dense though.
Again, I'd build it and measure it first, see how far off you are and you might get by. Try to thermally connect anything you can to the case, like the bridges, and the toriod even. It PA applications, with limiters and such, you can start to generate lots of heat from the transformer. Oversizing the tranny can help. Avoiding to much supply cap (i.e. minimizing RMS currents in the transformers) can also help.
The UCD's are effecient, and run about 6 watts each pluse I2R losses. You might even attempt to isolate the heat from the xfrmr from the area around the UCD's convection wise.
I'd take a bit of time to calculate heat dissipation in all the big elements. in the UCD's, you know they do 6W sitting there, and are 90% effecient. For the transformer, you can calculate that too based on effeciency, but make some effort to calculate the real RMS current for a full bridge load into a cap.
I know you have a vision for the package already, but surface area is key for dissipating the heat without a fan. Also, I think you should use a heatsink on the front to have any chance.
I mount my ucd400 on a big heatsink, (its in an old A/B amp chassis) and the T-bar isn't even warm, thus all the heat is out of the chassis.
Good Luck
Portland Mike
input switch
I’m interested in buying two UCD400 modules. This topic has provided me most information I was looking for but I have however one question. I own a Transporter from slimdevices with balanced outputs. Since it has its own volume control I can connect it directly to the UCD power amp. Secondly I have a surround receiver with RCA pre-outs that I also want to connect to the UCD. I know that the UCD have both Balanced and RCA inputs but how can I switch between the two? Obviously the ‘switch’ should have no influence on the audio signal or as little as possible. What is the best way of doing this.
... and btw this is my first post. I like to says HI to everybody!
I’m interested in buying two UCD400 modules. This topic has provided me most information I was looking for but I have however one question. I own a Transporter from slimdevices with balanced outputs. Since it has its own volume control I can connect it directly to the UCD power amp. Secondly I have a surround receiver with RCA pre-outs that I also want to connect to the UCD. I know that the UCD have both Balanced and RCA inputs but how can I switch between the two? Obviously the ‘switch’ should have no influence on the audio signal or as little as possible. What is the best way of doing this.
... and btw this is my first post. I like to says HI to everybody!
My UcD400 HGs ( 4 in a ventilated case ) do get warm.. certainly it feels like the electronics boards / regs get much hotter than the heatsink.
If you put your hand above them you can feel the heat. I was a bit surprised since everyone says they run cool.. Maybe the heatsinks are not hot but my circuit boards certainly do.
Is this something I should be worried about ?
If you put your hand above them you can feel the heat. I was a bit surprised since everyone says they run cool.. Maybe the heatsinks are not hot but my circuit boards certainly do.
Is this something I should be worried about ?
@Pixola
The reason the regulators get fairly hot is due to the fact that they have to supply the on-board opamp which runs at +/-16V. Assuming you run the UcD's at +/-60V they have to dissipate (60V-16V)*10mA=0.44W. They will get about 65'C. This is really nothing to worry about.
Jorrit
Hypex Electronics BV
The reason the regulators get fairly hot is due to the fact that they have to supply the on-board opamp which runs at +/-16V. Assuming you run the UcD's at +/-60V they have to dissipate (60V-16V)*10mA=0.44W. They will get about 65'C. This is really nothing to worry about.
Jorrit
Hypex Electronics BV
Re: input switch
Hi and welcome,
The UCD's have a true differential input. That means you can connect them balanced or ground one side and do single ended.
It doesn't have two inputs.
You'll need a switch that has two pairs of input to a pair of outputs per channel.
i.e. you need a 2:1 balanced switch per channel.
Treat your single ended as a balanced output and you'll be fine.
you might try goldpt.com (I think that's right) They sell some stuff on ebay too, and they make a balanced input selector of very good quality, but not cheap.
There are likely other ones too.
Portlandmike
Swiss77 said:I’m interested in buying two UCD400 modules. This topic has provided me most information I was looking for but I have however one question. I own a Transporter from slimdevices with balanced outputs. Since it has its own volume control I can connect it directly to the UCD power amp. Secondly I have a surround receiver with RCA pre-outs that I also want to connect to the UCD. I know that the UCD have both Balanced and RCA inputs but how can I switch between the two? Obviously the ‘switch’ should have no influence on the audio signal or as little as possible. What is the best way of doing this.
... and btw this is my first post. I like to says HI to everybody!
Hi and welcome,
The UCD's have a true differential input. That means you can connect them balanced or ground one side and do single ended.
It doesn't have two inputs.
You'll need a switch that has two pairs of input to a pair of outputs per channel.
i.e. you need a 2:1 balanced switch per channel.
Treat your single ended as a balanced output and you'll be fine.
you might try goldpt.com (I think that's right) They sell some stuff on ebay too, and they make a balanced input selector of very good quality, but not cheap.
There are likely other ones too.
Portlandmike
Hi Jorrit
Dear Jorrit,
You probably don't remember but I bothered you months ago about one of my (modded) UCD400ST modules that had a DC offset of 92mV when stock, and still has it despite my mods (no wonder)
You very kindly offered to take a look at it, and replace it if it were an inborn defect, but I rejected this idea because of the potential expense from my part, in time without the unit and in money from shipment (they are cheap enough to replace them )
I have a little question on this subject; please look at the added photo:
This ugly photo represents one of my awful mods to the UCD module. May the trimmer pot on the center of the photo be guilty of my DC offset???
If yes, I could possibly try to find the correct position...
(this module has a turn on/turn off "tump" that bothers me...appart that I suspect HF distortion)
Thanks
M
Dear Jorrit,
You probably don't remember but I bothered you months ago about one of my (modded) UCD400ST modules that had a DC offset of 92mV when stock, and still has it despite my mods
(no wonder)You very kindly offered to take a look at it, and replace it if it were an inborn defect, but I rejected this idea because of the potential expense from my part, in time without the unit and in money from shipment (they are cheap enough to replace them
)I have a little question on this subject; please look at the added photo:
This ugly photo represents one of my awful mods to the UCD module. May the trimmer pot on the center of the photo be guilty of my DC offset???
If yes, I could possibly try to find the correct position...
(this module has a turn on/turn off "tump" that bothers me...appart that I suspect HF distortion)
Thanks
M
Re: Re: input switch
Thank you very much for your reply and lightened me up about the actual inputs of the UCD. It seems that a ‘one deck’ Goldpoint selector switch will do the trick. At €50,- it is far from a bargain but I believe it’s high quality. Would a switch with relays be a good idea or is a passive switch like the goldpoint the best solution?
Portlandmike said:
Thank you very much for your reply and lightened me up about the actual inputs of the UCD. It seems that a ‘one deck’ Goldpoint selector switch will do the trick. At €50,- it is far from a bargain but I believe it’s high quality. Would a switch with relays be a good idea or is a passive switch like the goldpoint the best solution?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hpr12/hnr12
This one's for Jan-Peter or Bruno:
The regulators are specified for 18 volts. I have a preamp running on 15 volts; would the regulators be happy with that input?
Alternatively, I'll be running 6 UcDs from a switching supply. Would it make sense to have a dropping resistor, say on the order of about 1kohm/5watts followed by a filter capacitor, to feed all six regulators in each leg with somewhat cleaner power?
Thanks in advance,
Francois.
This one's for Jan-Peter or Bruno:
The regulators are specified for 18 volts. I have a preamp running on 15 volts; would the regulators be happy with that input?
Alternatively, I'll be running 6 UcDs from a switching supply. Would it make sense to have a dropping resistor, say on the order of about 1kohm/5watts followed by a filter capacitor, to feed all six regulators in each leg with somewhat cleaner power?
Thanks in advance,
Francois.