Soo I was doing my thing here some time ago, and blew up some speakers. I had built two speakers using 4x 18sound 10nw650 drivers + bms4594 horn, and I had a couple of unconcious noob seconds where I turned some knobs that I should have left unturn, and I blew all the woofers during tuning.
I have recone kits for two of them, but delivery time for the other ones is over a month, and I have an event coming up in a couple of weeks. Now its time to be creative and break some rules, I need to ask how bad my ideas are.
I am quite limited in options in norway, the event is creeping up in the speed of light, so I have to choose from drivers which are in stock. What would be the consequences if I use the reconed 10nw650s on one side, and put in Fane Sovereign Pro 10-300 in the other one? Cabs are 47liters and tuned to 57hz, but will cut them around 105hz. I will attach the sims of acoustic power and phase. Black line is 18sound, grey is Fane Sovereign. How bad is this idea? So bad I should definetely buy 4x new drivers, or acceptable?
Thanks in andvance!
I have recone kits for two of them, but delivery time for the other ones is over a month, and I have an event coming up in a couple of weeks. Now its time to be creative and break some rules, I need to ask how bad my ideas are.
I am quite limited in options in norway, the event is creeping up in the speed of light, so I have to choose from drivers which are in stock. What would be the consequences if I use the reconed 10nw650s on one side, and put in Fane Sovereign Pro 10-300 in the other one? Cabs are 47liters and tuned to 57hz, but will cut them around 105hz. I will attach the sims of acoustic power and phase. Black line is 18sound, grey is Fane Sovereign. How bad is this idea? So bad I should definetely buy 4x new drivers, or acceptable?
Thanks in andvance!
Attachments
Some thoughts:
- The woofers look like they'll combine okay in the piston region, but I suspect the Fane is of lower quality than the 18Sound. Given that, I'd be inclined to run the Fanes with an inductor in-line, to roll them off around 600Hz-ish. That way, the 18Sound is covering the midrange with higher quality.
- Do the cutouts and screws match?
- Do you definitely need the extra 6dB that the 2nd driver will give you?
- I think you'll be okay running mis-matched drivers up to the 600Hz range - they'll still be acting as pistons, and the wavelengths are long enough that acoustic centres etc will still be aligned. As you go higher, each woofer will have a different set of peaks and dips, acoustic centres will shift, etc etc, and they won't combine so well.
Chris
- The woofers look like they'll combine okay in the piston region, but I suspect the Fane is of lower quality than the 18Sound. Given that, I'd be inclined to run the Fanes with an inductor in-line, to roll them off around 600Hz-ish. That way, the 18Sound is covering the midrange with higher quality.
- Do the cutouts and screws match?
- Do you definitely need the extra 6dB that the 2nd driver will give you?
- I think you'll be okay running mis-matched drivers up to the 600Hz range - they'll still be acting as pistons, and the wavelengths are long enough that acoustic centres etc will still be aligned. As you go higher, each woofer will have a different set of peaks and dips, acoustic centres will shift, etc etc, and they won't combine so well.
Chris
Thank you for your thoughts, Chris. Very much appreciated. This was my initial thoughts as well. The BMS digs quite low, so I will actually be able to cross both the 18sound and Fanes around 500hz. I use a low powered set up, so I think it will be fine. I use a miniDSP to cross between them.
Cutouts do match plus minus 2mm, screws do not, so I need to make some new ones just for this temporary solution.
Do I need the extra 6db? Both yes and no. It would probably work without it, but I invested so much time in this, its kind of a no go to do without.
Is it a given that I should use the fanes in a different cab? What would be the consequences of mixing drivers in same cabinet to "smooth out" the quality difference in the 100 to 500hz range?
Cutouts do match plus minus 2mm, screws do not, so I need to make some new ones just for this temporary solution.
Do I need the extra 6db? Both yes and no. It would probably work without it, but I invested so much time in this, its kind of a no go to do without.
Is it a given that I should use the fanes in a different cab? What would be the consequences of mixing drivers in same cabinet to "smooth out" the quality difference in the 100 to 500hz range?
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Cool, okay. I'd run the crossover around 500Hz and let the Fanes and 18Sounds share a cab, then. They're operating at a low enough range, and are close enough in output across the band, that I don't see any issues.
It won't be optimal, but while we're still waving bits of cardboard around with magnets, it'll be good enough for rock 'n' roll.
A final thought, though: the last Fane drivers I used were the Sov.Pro 12-500 midbass units, which suffered terribly from power compression. If you can only get the Fane 10-300 units in time, go for it. I'd recommend thinking about what you might use them for once you've got all the 18Sound drivers reconed, though - just from a financial/business point of view.
Chris
It won't be optimal, but while we're still waving bits of cardboard around with magnets, it'll be good enough for rock 'n' roll.
A final thought, though: the last Fane drivers I used were the Sov.Pro 12-500 midbass units, which suffered terribly from power compression. If you can only get the Fane 10-300 units in time, go for it. I'd recommend thinking about what you might use them for once you've got all the 18Sound drivers reconed, though - just from a financial/business point of view.
Chris
Are you limited to Norway or could you get drivers from EU ?
X-Max Lautsprechertechnik is the german distributor, who might be able to help you.
Contact info is on 18sound HP
I'm going to vote against putting one of each driver in each cab, I think with the divers separated you can at least process the system to compensate for the differences in drivers, with them combined you can't do that. I'm also of the opinion this will will fine in the interm.
Chris, thanks for your comments!
Uri55, not limited to norway per se, but it is more about delivery time, since my event is close.
Conanski, thanks for your perspective. This is also true. Now im not so sure anymore. Do you think the difference between left and right will be audible this way?
Uri55, not limited to norway per se, but it is more about delivery time, since my event is close.
Conanski, thanks for your perspective. This is also true. Now im not so sure anymore. Do you think the difference between left and right will be audible this way?
Yeah, I see your point.
I was just thinking that they'd average each other out a little. Hornresp suggests minimal differences, especially since we're (just about) operating in the T/S region.
Either way, I think, would be fine.
Chris
There should not be a hugh difference but even if you just want to EQ the FR response to be similar it won't be as clean with mixed drivers. Say for example one of them has a peak in it's response that you want to flatten, easy enough to do but if the other drivers response is flat at that frequency then the EQ will notch it's response but since these aren't the same driver how much it does so and what the combined response ends up looking like is anybody's guess because the two drivers will react differently to the same EQ. And remember any EQ applied affects both the magnitude and phase response at the same time so the chances of creating unwanted effects with dissimilar drivers is greater.
This comes from the school of hard knocks on my part.. having done this in the past on numerous occasions because of having to use what I had on hand at the time. I quickly discovered that mixing drivers in the same cab produced less desirable results than keeping them separated.