Hi everyone,
I have a 1.5 ohm Caddack (MKP 930) resistor on my tweeter at this moment.
I hear that having more than one resistor helps the roll off on the tweeter.
If I parallel 2 of the 3 ohm caddocks it will give me 1.5 ohm as well. can anyone
make more sence of this or is it just myth?
Thanks
I have a 1.5 ohm Caddack (MKP 930) resistor on my tweeter at this moment.
I hear that having more than one resistor helps the roll off on the tweeter.
If I parallel 2 of the 3 ohm caddocks it will give me 1.5 ohm as well. can anyone
make more sence of this or is it just myth?
Thanks
Using two of the 3 ohm in parallel gives you 1.5 ohms. It will sound virtually the same as one at 1.5 ohm. You would use the parallel resitors if you need higher power handling.
What do you mean by rolling off?
Decreasing the overall output or tapering the frequency at the high end?
What do you mean by rolling off?
Decreasing the overall output or tapering the frequency at the high end?
Cal, I always thought using more than one resistor to reach a same value caused the Q to lower?So the tweeter has a less sharp roll-off at the crossover frequency. I could be mistaken? and understood it wrong.
Especially in the case of a Caddock, no difference in the HF response.
What will change ever so slightly is the effective diameter of the wire that connects to the tweeter... will that matter in the sound? Perhaps.
In the case of say a "sand cast" wire wound, the total self inductance of the two will be reduced, but that effect is WAY out of the audioband.
Try running ur tweeters with thin wire and then with THICK wire, and see if you hear any differences. Try measuring the difference in the nearfield with a fixed mic set up and test levels.
Report back. 😉
_-_-bear
What will change ever so slightly is the effective diameter of the wire that connects to the tweeter... will that matter in the sound? Perhaps.
In the case of say a "sand cast" wire wound, the total self inductance of the two will be reduced, but that effect is WAY out of the audioband.
Try running ur tweeters with thin wire and then with THICK wire, and see if you hear any differences. Try measuring the difference in the nearfield with a fixed mic set up and test levels.
Report back. 😉
_-_-bear
I'm pretty sure you got something wrong there. If you used wirewound resistors with noticable inductance you may be able to get it to appear more like an ideal resistor by using several in parallel. But for the price you could easily buy a decent resistor.
When parralleling multiple caps you can reduce the ESR(series resistance) of the capacitance value. I think that is the most likely cause of your confusion.
When parralleling multiple caps you can reduce the ESR(series resistance) of the capacitance value. I think that is the most likely cause of your confusion.
I see where I went wrong.
I am using a 1.5 Ohm resistor at the moment in series on the crossover, but if I use a L-pad
design, one in series and the other in parallel thats when the Q lowers and that lowers the high-pass crossover frequency fractionally. Using a 2 ohm and a 7 ohm gives you 1.555 ohm.
I am using a 1.5 Ohm resistor at the moment in series on the crossover, but if I use a L-pad
design, one in series and the other in parallel thats when the Q lowers and that lowers the high-pass crossover frequency fractionally. Using a 2 ohm and a 7 ohm gives you 1.555 ohm.
Serratoga, I think you still have a misunderstanding. Q is a ratio of reactance (either capacitive or inductive) in ohms to resistance in ohms. It does not matter how the resistance is derived, series or parallel combinations.
Energy sent to reactive components is stored momentarily, then dissipated into resistance. Ideally this is the acoustic resistance between the cone and air.
A low parallel resistance across the tweeter will reduce it's Q, and may be of a benefit if the crossover F is too low. Again, whether that resistance is obtained from 1 resistor or several is non relevant. It's the total resistance that counts.
HTH,
Geoff
Energy sent to reactive components is stored momentarily, then dissipated into resistance. Ideally this is the acoustic resistance between the cone and air.
A low parallel resistance across the tweeter will reduce it's Q, and may be of a benefit if the crossover F is too low. Again, whether that resistance is obtained from 1 resistor or several is non relevant. It's the total resistance that counts.
HTH,
Geoff
Serratoga, you may get somewhere faster by stating what it is you're trying to achieve. Is the tweeter level a problem? What does the circuit look like?
I own a pair of Linn Keilidh speakers of which I find the sound to be boxed in and the highs are very harsh. Upon reading some of the forums I decided on a "do it yourself" upgrade.
First, I replaced the tweeter. Linn sold an upgraded tweeter -- however I didn't see much of a difference between that and the original.
I did some more research and came across Hiqphon (manufactured in Denmark). On recommendation of Hoqphon's owner I decided to install an OW2 which has the same sensitivity level as the original ceramic tweeter. They also custom-shaped it to flush-fit my speaker box. Upon installation I found the speaker to be much smoother than the original but it lacked a bit of detail. However, this had already been a problem from he get-go with the original model. I then replaced the capacitors and the resistors with some help from technical support from Sonic Craft. They recommended I use some dynamicaps and mills resistors. The sound completely opened right up. Mind you, I still found that I needed a bit more detail.
Tony Gee's website features a capacitor shoot-out. It says in order to clean up the sound, you're best bet is to use a MKP-1837 at .01 uF. I installed the MKP as a bypass, both in the high-frequency caps and low-frequency caps. While it cleaned up the image and detail even more it was at the cost of the smallest amount of bass. So I removed the bypass on the low-frequency caps which resulted in much better sound without losing detail.
I recently came upon Caddock resistors MP930 which I decided to try out. These OUTPERFORMED every other resistor I have tested over the years by a mile. The detail and imaging is unbelievable! The only drawback was that on some recordings the sound was becoming a bit harsh. Again only in some recordings. The mills didn't have this issue.
My crossover has a 1.5 ohm resistor in series configuration. Tony Gee suggests that I add a L-pad "Lowering the Q means the tweeter has a less sharp roll-off at the crossover frequency", while a the same time keeping the 1.5 ohm consistent. A 2 ohm and a 6 ohm should do the trick.
Has anyone had experience with this? What are your thoughts or recommendations.
I sincerely appreciate all the input you have.
First, I replaced the tweeter. Linn sold an upgraded tweeter -- however I didn't see much of a difference between that and the original.
I did some more research and came across Hiqphon (manufactured in Denmark). On recommendation of Hoqphon's owner I decided to install an OW2 which has the same sensitivity level as the original ceramic tweeter. They also custom-shaped it to flush-fit my speaker box. Upon installation I found the speaker to be much smoother than the original but it lacked a bit of detail. However, this had already been a problem from he get-go with the original model. I then replaced the capacitors and the resistors with some help from technical support from Sonic Craft. They recommended I use some dynamicaps and mills resistors. The sound completely opened right up. Mind you, I still found that I needed a bit more detail.
Tony Gee's website features a capacitor shoot-out. It says in order to clean up the sound, you're best bet is to use a MKP-1837 at .01 uF. I installed the MKP as a bypass, both in the high-frequency caps and low-frequency caps. While it cleaned up the image and detail even more it was at the cost of the smallest amount of bass. So I removed the bypass on the low-frequency caps which resulted in much better sound without losing detail.
I recently came upon Caddock resistors MP930 which I decided to try out. These OUTPERFORMED every other resistor I have tested over the years by a mile. The detail and imaging is unbelievable! The only drawback was that on some recordings the sound was becoming a bit harsh. Again only in some recordings. The mills didn't have this issue.
My crossover has a 1.5 ohm resistor in series configuration. Tony Gee suggests that I add a L-pad "Lowering the Q means the tweeter has a less sharp roll-off at the crossover frequency", while a the same time keeping the 1.5 ohm consistent. A 2 ohm and a 6 ohm should do the trick.
Has anyone had experience with this? What are your thoughts or recommendations.
I sincerely appreciate all the input you have.
The only potential problems I could think of is if the resistor had either some capacitance (unlikely) or inductance - both of these can alter the properties of your crossover. However, high-quality resistors like Caddock are going to be free of both of these properties - it's why they're so bloody expensive.
This made a measure more sense during the days of high voltage and carbon composition resistors, which did do some unusual things - this is most evident in valve-based guitar amplifiers, where a carbon-comp'd amp run at high voltages can show definite differences over the same amp with standard metal-film resistors.
This made a measure more sense during the days of high voltage and carbon composition resistors, which did do some unusual things - this is most evident in valve-based guitar amplifiers, where a carbon-comp'd amp run at high voltages can show definite differences over the same amp with standard metal-film resistors.
I wouldn't change it to a L-Pad because it will significantly change the frequency response, to the better or worse depending on your luck. I wouldn't do it to a very well designed speaker.
Increasing the resistence will make it perceptively less bright, less dynamic, less detailed, warmer, etc. Decreasing it has the opporsite effects.
When replacing resistors with the same value I would watch out the actual resistence because resistors may have a tolerence as high as 10%. That would change the sound significantly. When pepole describe changing resistors from one brand to another I often wonder if the perceived difference in sound was due to the difference in tolerence or difference in the sound quality of the components.
The inductance of the resistors is so small comparing to the impedance of the drivers so it would only affect very high frequencies well beyond our normal hearing capability unless you have the golden ears.
Nevertheless, many people keep saying different brands of resistors do make a difference and I DO value their findings.
Best is that you try different brands of resistors (make sure they have the same resistence or with very close tolerence) and report back to the forums your findings.
I can't source those exotic brands in OZ or I would have bought many of them and try their differences.
Increasing the resistence will make it perceptively less bright, less dynamic, less detailed, warmer, etc. Decreasing it has the opporsite effects.
When replacing resistors with the same value I would watch out the actual resistence because resistors may have a tolerence as high as 10%. That would change the sound significantly. When pepole describe changing resistors from one brand to another I often wonder if the perceived difference in sound was due to the difference in tolerence or difference in the sound quality of the components.
The inductance of the resistors is so small comparing to the impedance of the drivers so it would only affect very high frequencies well beyond our normal hearing capability unless you have the golden ears.
Nevertheless, many people keep saying different brands of resistors do make a difference and I DO value their findings.
Best is that you try different brands of resistors (make sure they have the same resistence or with very close tolerence) and report back to the forums your findings.
I can't source those exotic brands in OZ or I would have bought many of them and try their differences.
i can't understand that the ceramic tweeter sounds 'harsh' in any way.
the hiqhphon is one of the finest 19mm-domes (as the familar scan speak D2008/2010), but he linn ceramic is as well.
the keilidh's treble is around 4 dB lower than the lower mids, so I would replace the Rs with a much lower value.
I use caddock Rs as well - in my MC-front end. but i have to state that i never heard difences between resistors 😀
luckily I hear the difereces between rectifiers an capacitors...
Holger
the hiqhphon is one of the finest 19mm-domes (as the familar scan speak D2008/2010), but he linn ceramic is as well.
the keilidh's treble is around 4 dB lower than the lower mids, so I would replace the Rs with a much lower value.
I use caddock Rs as well - in my MC-front end. but i have to state that i never heard difences between resistors 😀
luckily I hear the difereces between rectifiers an capacitors...
Holger
Holger,
you must be familiar with Linn Keilidhs? I am not sure I understand what you are saying?
My Hiquphon has a 90 dB efficiency are you saying the original Linn tweeters don't ?
What do you mean use a lower value resistor? Please advise.......
It's funny that you mention this because the first thing I noticed when I installed the
Hiquphon tweeters was alot of hissing where the Linns there was no hissing. Do you think the
Hiquphons are playing to loud and they need to be tamed?
Thanks
you must be familiar with Linn Keilidhs? I am not sure I understand what you are saying?
My Hiquphon has a 90 dB efficiency are you saying the original Linn tweeters don't ?
What do you mean use a lower value resistor? Please advise.......
It's funny that you mention this because the first thing I noticed when I installed the
Hiquphon tweeters was alot of hissing where the Linns there was no hissing. Do you think the
Hiquphons are playing to loud and they need to be tamed?
Thanks
When somthing sounds harsh, or not correct in any way, probably the most difficult thing is to determine whether the problem is at the speaker, in the amp, or other places in the reproduction chain.
With resistors, I can imagine that different resistors will make a difference. Recently just changing a 45cm of internal wire resulted in significant difference in the sound of a full range speaker. I have yet to determine how to identify why such change occurs. But with the parallel cap method, I have found that putting such 0.01uF cap actually reduces the level of 3rd and 4th order harmonics below 100Hz when testing with a low pass filter driven by a power amp. So maybe some reduction in the bass is really more correct.
One thing to keep in mind when selecting resistor rating is that most resistors are rated such that at that wattage, it will not destruct, but that does not mean distortion will not increase. I would probably select a wattage rating probably at least 3 time my expected maximum value.
With resistors, I can imagine that different resistors will make a difference. Recently just changing a 45cm of internal wire resulted in significant difference in the sound of a full range speaker. I have yet to determine how to identify why such change occurs. But with the parallel cap method, I have found that putting such 0.01uF cap actually reduces the level of 3rd and 4th order harmonics below 100Hz when testing with a low pass filter driven by a power amp. So maybe some reduction in the bass is really more correct.
One thing to keep in mind when selecting resistor rating is that most resistors are rated such that at that wattage, it will not destruct, but that does not mean distortion will not increase. I would probably select a wattage rating probably at least 3 time my expected maximum value.
An MP-930 Caddock resistor with a heat sink is rated for 30W when used with a heat sink (you are using a heat sink, right?). Most tweeter circuits use a 10W or 12W resistor in the same application, so I don't see that power handling is a problem. Maybe the increased resolution of your speakers is highlighting a problem elsewhere in the chain.
If you still want to try more resistor, get a pair of 3-ohm Caddocks and run them in parallel, that will still give you 1R5. I doubt you'll achieve anything though. I've never heard a Caddock sound raspy, they're smooooooth. I'd do what someone said above, and try some different values. Buy a handful of Lynk resistors between zero and three ohms and experiment.
I found the tweeter on my BESL speakers too hot in my rather hard room, so with Phil Bamberg's blessing, I added a 1R resistor in series with the tweeter, and it was just the ticket.
If you still want to try more resistor, get a pair of 3-ohm Caddocks and run them in parallel, that will still give you 1R5. I doubt you'll achieve anything though. I've never heard a Caddock sound raspy, they're smooooooth. I'd do what someone said above, and try some different values. Buy a handful of Lynk resistors between zero and three ohms and experiment.
I found the tweeter on my BESL speakers too hot in my rather hard room, so with Phil Bamberg's blessing, I added a 1R resistor in series with the tweeter, and it was just the ticket.
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