So a while back I soldered up that S-5 16ls kit and am just now getting around to doing some things to it, like getting rid of the terrible pot it came with. Anyway, my questions are:
1. The 6005 tubes, can they be successfully substituted with an EL84 tube without any issues?
2. The 5670 tubes, can they be successfully substituted with a 2C51 tube?
3. Would I benifit a lot from replacing the coupling caps with some orange drops or some clarity esa's over what came stock?
I would eventually like to change the opt's and the caps as well, and give this thing a proper case as well. It actually sounds pretty good with my Omega Super 7 monitors, beside the no good pot that it came with. I realize this post about the S-5 kit is probably monotonous, but I don't know if I don't ask, right?
Thank you
Cole
1. The 6005 tubes, can they be successfully substituted with an EL84 tube without any issues?
2. The 5670 tubes, can they be successfully substituted with a 2C51 tube?
3. Would I benifit a lot from replacing the coupling caps with some orange drops or some clarity esa's over what came stock?
I would eventually like to change the opt's and the caps as well, and give this thing a proper case as well. It actually sounds pretty good with my Omega Super 7 monitors, beside the no good pot that it came with. I realize this post about the S-5 kit is probably monotonous, but I don't know if I don't ask, right?
Thank you
Cole
1. No, both electrically different and different bases. You can replace 6005s with 6AQ5s.
2. Compare the 2C51 data sheet to the 5670 data sheet, for yourself.
3. Save your money. Enjoy the "toy" for what it is. Build something better, in the future.
2. Compare the 2C51 data sheet to the 5670 data sheet, for yourself.
3. Save your money. Enjoy the "toy" for what it is. Build something better, in the future.
Fair enough. Thanks for the sources, but as you could probably tell by the questions, I have no idea how to interpret what the sources are telling me. I can't exactly afford more than this "toy". I was trying to better what I currently had. I was told those tubes were interchangeable, but I guess that's not case.
Thanks
Thanks
Hi Cole,
Listen to it and keep what Eli has told you in mind. After you hang out here for a while you will gain knowledge that will really help you make decisions on things like this. Don't be in a rush, it isn't life and death. Besides, you'll get way more out of it once you learn a few things and put that into practice.
-Chris
Listen to it and keep what Eli has told you in mind. After you hang out here for a while you will gain knowledge that will really help you make decisions on things like this. Don't be in a rush, it isn't life and death. Besides, you'll get way more out of it once you learn a few things and put that into practice.
-Chris
Awesome. Will do for sure. A lot of the subject matter throughout the site is almost in a different language to me. You would think as an electrician I would have a better understanding but yea. It'd be nice to sit down at a workbench with someone, with a super simple amp design, and go through it step by step. As of now I barely know how to ask the questions. Anyway thanks for the positive reinforcement.
Magnetics are the single biggest expense in any amp construction project. Once you think about buying O/P "iron", you have taken a major step.
No. 6005 is an industrial 6AQ5; 6669 ( I think ) is another industrial type. There are one or two other obscure industrial and consumer types that are similar. 6005 / 6AQ5 is a good tube - it's sort of a mini 6V6.
Sure, and thought I might have some dual marked here at the office, but all of mine are 5670W. One of my tube manuals states: "Analysis of the electrical characteristics of this tube (5670) with the 2C51 will indicate the 5670 is essentially similar." So, some difference, somehow. Might ( or might not ) make a difference in the computing radar gunsight in your Sabre jet, in your S-5, don't worry about it. Personally, unless you could get a 2C51 or 396A for the same price as a 5670, which is a one or two dollar tube, I wouldn't bother.
I would say not, but orange drops are cheap and look neat, so it wouldn't hurt anything. I have no idea what a clarity esa is.
I have had one of the 11BM8 variants under the eave on my deck for more than a decade, and I would say the weak point is the shared cathode resistor. One of my OPT's also measured really bad for distortion ( but sounded fine ), but it lives outside, has been blasted by the hose while it was turned on, etc.
I wouldn't describe these amps as toys, but I wouldn't put much, if any, extra effort or money in one.
Win W5JAG
edit: S-5 makes a case for these, but it may be just for the older style four tube amps, which is what I have.
http://www.s5electronics.com/gcase.html
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Oh, one other thing to the OP:
On eBay, there is a Russian and Chinese tube, 6P1, that is advertised and sold as a 6AQ5 - it's not.
It is a fine tube, but it will not work in your amp, as it has a 9 pin base. So, if you are tube shopping on eBay, make sure any tube that is being sold as a 6AQ5 actually has a 7 pin base. There is a Euro type number, EL90 or something, and there are Tesla's and other Euro makes if you are adventurous.
Win W5JAG
On eBay, there is a Russian and Chinese tube, 6P1, that is advertised and sold as a 6AQ5 - it's not.
It is a fine tube, but it will not work in your amp, as it has a 9 pin base. So, if you are tube shopping on eBay, make sure any tube that is being sold as a 6AQ5 actually has a 7 pin base. There is a Euro type number, EL90 or something, and there are Tesla's and other Euro makes if you are adventurous.
Win W5JAG
Awesome. Thanks for the very informative post w5jag. I did compare some of the specs between the two sources Eli posted, and see there are some differences, but I honestly have no idea whether they would make a difference, or how much if they did. Good or bad. Obviously I'm learning. You have a valid point about how much money to sink into the amp. If it's not overly expensive, I'll prolly give it a whirl, but seeing the cost of the opt's, I probably won't replace them.
Also, Clarity is a brand of cap, esa being the model. Would be in the place of the coupling caps. Any simple explanation as to what a/the coupling capacitor is. As in, it's function or why you need them? I just know that's what it is on my amp cause of other threads.
Thanks guys
Also, Clarity is a brand of cap, esa being the model. Would be in the place of the coupling caps. Any simple explanation as to what a/the coupling capacitor is. As in, it's function or why you need them? I just know that's what it is on my amp cause of other threads.
Thanks guys
Great advice. I've thrown away a lot of money by jumping too quickly on ideas for 'upgrades'.
I'll take a shot at it, as someone that had no idea a year ago: It allows the A/C signal voltage to pass while stopping the DC power voltage. At least that is what I've gathered.
Hi ta240,
You are correct. A coupling capacitor allows an AC signal to pass if it's in the passband while blocking the DC supply voltage.
Hi Cole
These are critical for sound quality and for keeping the smoke at bay. The quality of the coupling capacitor can have a large effect on the sound quality.
When replacing coupling capacitors, do not increase the value of the part unless you either can't find the exact value, or there is a technical reason to do so (correcting a design problem). Only very experienced technicians should change the value, and only after consideration of the design, or a modification note from the original manufacturer.
-Chris
You are correct. A coupling capacitor allows an AC signal to pass if it's in the passband while blocking the DC supply voltage.
Hi Cole
These are critical for sound quality and for keeping the smoke at bay. The quality of the coupling capacitor can have a large effect on the sound quality.
Maybe yes, maybe no. Right now, just leave them in. Remember that the replacement component must fit in the same spot exactly that the original part did. The Orange drops are a radial capacitor design and will not normally fit properly. The Clarity capacitors should work, but they can be replaced with something every bit as good for a lot less money. I just proved that to someone else who blew a lot of money for nothing on them.
When replacing coupling capacitors, do not increase the value of the part unless you either can't find the exact value, or there is a technical reason to do so (correcting a design problem). Only very experienced technicians should change the value, and only after consideration of the design, or a modification note from the original manufacturer.
-Chris
@dukecv
There are lots of good resources for building knowledge on this forum, many in a sticky called On Line Tube Learning for newbies.
Also, I've learned a ton from two recently published books that I have no hesitation recommending, Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones and Designing High Fidelity Tube Preamps by Merlin Blencowe.
--
There are lots of good resources for building knowledge on this forum, many in a sticky called On Line Tube Learning for newbies.
Also, I've learned a ton from two recently published books that I have no hesitation recommending, Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones and Designing High Fidelity Tube Preamps by Merlin Blencowe.
--
Hi rongon,
Another two books that everyone interested in building their own tube amplifier should have on their bookshelf. Certainly worth buying and reading through. The RCA Design Handbook release #4 (RDH4) is another that everyone should own a copy of. Just reading that one is a job! All these books are packed with useful information. I have those as well.
-Chris
Another two books that everyone interested in building their own tube amplifier should have on their bookshelf. Certainly worth buying and reading through. The RCA Design Handbook release #4 (RDH4) is another that everyone should own a copy of. Just reading that one is a job! All these books are packed with useful information. I have those as well.
-Chris
Small correction:
RDH4 is "Radio Designer's Handbook", not RCA .... (The RCA Tube Manual also has a good basic section on tubes but is not a designer's handbook.) Yes, RDH (editor Fritz Langford-Smith) is a 1500 page volume, in many ways the "bible" of audio design and some r.f. .
RDH4 is "Radio Designer's Handbook", not RCA .... (The RCA Tube Manual also has a good basic section on tubes but is not a designer's handbook.) Yes, RDH (editor Fritz Langford-Smith) is a 1500 page volume, in many ways the "bible" of audio design and some r.f. .
> You would think as an electrician I would have a better understanding
Some *parts* you will understand better than most here.
Electronics became a fairly complex subject. And I think the early workers had an inferiority complex. 1890-1920 the Electricians wrought MAJOR changes in everyday life, from harnessing Niagara Falls to putting lights on Bayside Road. The early radio experimenters played with fairly useless things (until the Titanic sent SOS{CQD}), local telephone systems were rude, tube-repeater long phone lines very expensive to use.
And nothing personal: I observe that many Electricians have been reduced through custom and regulation to mechanics with wire-tables. The "best" solutions to most small wiring problems were worked-out 100 years ago. Some of the hardware is hardly changed in 100 years (4" mud-rings; tho EMT displaced iron pipe). NEC makes many un-clear assumptions and leaves only few options, and few devices on the market. And really the goal is "simple": run 2 wires from the dam generator to electric lamp. Safety and distribution and economy imposes much more, but all very routine.
You can understand a vacuum tube like you might understand my house feeder. I have 250V no-load and 210V at 100 Amp load (0.4 Ohm line resistance). (Feeder is too long, installed for a trailer, this house "just happened" later.) By switching my high-load appliances, I can give you any voltage from 250V to 210V. Obviously down to zero, if I bolt the bus, though that would blow breaker to save the feeder from smoking. While I can not run-around changing my load at KHz rates, a vacuum tube can vary 1Meg to 5K at radio speed just by voltage on a small wire in a vacuum. Change my 0.4 Ohm from AC to 5K-50K from DC, and the tube will deliver real power output with teeny power at the signal port.
Some *parts* you will understand better than most here.
Electronics became a fairly complex subject. And I think the early workers had an inferiority complex. 1890-1920 the Electricians wrought MAJOR changes in everyday life, from harnessing Niagara Falls to putting lights on Bayside Road. The early radio experimenters played with fairly useless things (until the Titanic sent SOS{CQD}), local telephone systems were rude, tube-repeater long phone lines very expensive to use.
And nothing personal: I observe that many Electricians have been reduced through custom and regulation to mechanics with wire-tables. The "best" solutions to most small wiring problems were worked-out 100 years ago. Some of the hardware is hardly changed in 100 years (4" mud-rings; tho EMT displaced iron pipe). NEC makes many un-clear assumptions and leaves only few options, and few devices on the market. And really the goal is "simple": run 2 wires from the dam generator to electric lamp. Safety and distribution and economy imposes much more, but all very routine.
You can understand a vacuum tube like you might understand my house feeder. I have 250V no-load and 210V at 100 Amp load (0.4 Ohm line resistance). (Feeder is too long, installed for a trailer, this house "just happened" later.) By switching my high-load appliances, I can give you any voltage from 250V to 210V. Obviously down to zero, if I bolt the bus, though that would blow breaker to save the feeder from smoking. While I can not run-around changing my load at KHz rates, a vacuum tube can vary 1Meg to 5K at radio speed just by voltage on a small wire in a vacuum. Change my 0.4 Ohm from AC to 5K-50K from DC, and the tube will deliver real power output with teeny power at the signal port.
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Well, that's what I get for skipping past the stickies every time I get on here.
The number 2 link is some of the easiest to follow and understand info on tubes I've seen. I printed it all out to read offline.
Neets Module 06-Introduction to Electronic Emission, Tubes, and Power Supplies
The funny thing there is about 5 years ago my dad was cleaning out the garage and asked if I wanted his old binders full of electronics training from the Navy. The exact stuff in that link.
I'd looked at them as a kid but figured why would I want something that old.
Flash forward to a year and a half ago when I dragged his old Heathkit A9C out of the attic and started down the slippery slope into tube amplifiers. And shipped back the just arrived $2000 Merantz receiver to start building my own tube amp.
PRR I agree with what the code making panel has done with our trade. Some of it necessary for what we desire with electric systems, and others, much unneeded redundancy, costing consumers and customers a lot more in the end.
I will look into the resources mentioned in the above posts.
Thanks much guys
I will look into the resources mentioned in the above posts.
Thanks much guys
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