Hi everyone...
Newb here on this site which is great and has been of really good reading of late.
I have a Rel Stentor version 1 which if possible i would like to change out the drive / bass unit with one of the better volt units used in the newer Stentor III or Studio III.......1/does any one know which driver is currently in my sub box and 2/ by changing it for a more current volt driver , will/would i see any increases in extension and control/spl etc.
Newb here on this site which is great and has been of really good reading of late.
I have a Rel Stentor version 1 which if possible i would like to change out the drive / bass unit with one of the better volt units used in the newer Stentor III or Studio III.......1/does any one know which driver is currently in my sub box and 2/ by changing it for a more current volt driver , will/would i see any increases in extension and control/spl etc.
Sorry, this comment doesnt answer your question, but i dont know this sub.
But...
It is no big step from exchanging the driver to building a new cabinet. At least for the money aspect, since wood is quite cheap. And a closed or vented box is easy to build. This way, you have the freedom to make a sub which has the right compromises for you, or in other words, something better.
But...
It is no big step from exchanging the driver to building a new cabinet. At least for the money aspect, since wood is quite cheap. And a closed or vented box is easy to build. This way, you have the freedom to make a sub which has the right compromises for you, or in other words, something better.
Hi Steve,
I think you should check what kind of woofer they put into the sub as an original part. Specifications for this unit may be a guide what to use next and in addition prevent you from "upgrading" with the same unit.
Volt B.2500.1 is maybe a good choice but it´s expensive.
http://www.voltloudspeakers.co.uk/Loudspeakers/Studio_Range/B2500_1/body_b2500_1.html
There are a lot more options like Visaton TIW 250 XS or Usher GT-10 and of course you have to check if there has to be modifications to the port´s length etc.
I use the Volt RV 3143 drivers for my big subs and I am quite pleased with them .
The amp in your sub might be of the BK-electronics Mosfet origin.
Noting wrong with them but using better amplification may also be helpful in obtaining a tighter and more precise bass!
I think you should check what kind of woofer they put into the sub as an original part. Specifications for this unit may be a guide what to use next and in addition prevent you from "upgrading" with the same unit.
Volt B.2500.1 is maybe a good choice but it´s expensive.
http://www.voltloudspeakers.co.uk/Loudspeakers/Studio_Range/B2500_1/body_b2500_1.html
There are a lot more options like Visaton TIW 250 XS or Usher GT-10 and of course you have to check if there has to be modifications to the port´s length etc.
I use the Volt RV 3143 drivers for my big subs and I am quite pleased with them .
The amp in your sub might be of the BK-electronics Mosfet origin.
Noting wrong with them but using better amplification may also be helpful in obtaining a tighter and more precise bass!
mojogoes said:
Hi,
I'd say significant improvements are unlikely and driver swapping is
not going to be cost effective, considering the cost of Volt drivers.
It is also possible things will be worse with a different Volt driver.
(If there any significant changes to the driver in each model.)
/sreten.The golden mean said:
Cheers....yes good point about the cabinet size and amp spec's , if it helps any one out i have a link / url of a guy who has copied the rel stentorIII electronics but with even better components here is the like http://adrian-kingston.com/.....if you cue down and click on home theatre take a look at bass and bass2 he uses an 18" driver etc.
How much is the B2500.1 driver .....i know the audio referance 800 uses something like the Volt R3853 or RV4504 which are a couple of volts best studio range.......i will have to take a look at the driver in my cab and see which unit it actually is.........with the right amplification and xover system whats the lowest extension a B2500.1 can reach.....could it go subsonic 10/12hz etc.
Re: Re: Trying to upgrade my rel stentor bass unit
Very good point Sreten and i mostly agree though the new rel stentor cab has 70Ltr's with a 300w amp and mine has 72Ltr's and uses a 200w amp.......there's not alot in it although i would think the mkIII has different bass loading so rel say......i think the port is more or less the same size too......but they do claim that all the newer mkIII's have a better driver which i thought it would be agood idea to use given these slight changes.
Its also said that the top of the range rel studioIII is not such a step up as is from the mkI to the mkII studio's.........the mkII having a 300w amp and the mkIII a 500w amp.......and given the power jump here you would think with a 200w increase in power a more substantial increase in performance would prevail but no...........so on this basis i thought it was be reasonable to think i could do same thing and change my drive unit to a higher efficient one.
sreten said:
Hi,
I'd say significant improvements are unlikely and driver swapping is
not going to be cost effective, considering the cost of Volt drivers.
It is also possible things will be worse with a different Volt driver.
(If there any significant changes to the driver in each model.)
Very good point Sreten and i mostly agree though the new rel stentor cab has 70Ltr's with a 300w amp and mine has 72Ltr's and uses a 200w amp.......there's not alot in it although i would think the mkIII has different bass loading so rel say......i think the port is more or less the same size too......but they do claim that all the newer mkIII's have a better driver which i thought it would be agood idea to use given these slight changes.
Its also said that the top of the range rel studioIII is not such a step up as is from the mkI to the mkII studio's.........the mkII having a 300w amp and the mkIII a 500w amp.......and given the power jump here you would think with a 200w increase in power a more substantial increase in performance would prevail but no...........so on this basis i thought it was be reasonable to think i could do same thing and change my drive unit to a higher efficient one.
The Volt B 2500.1 is £ 229.79 Ex Vat at Wilmslow Audio but I saw it at about £ 200 Ex Vat somewhere (can´t remember right now)
If we expand the choices to 12" drivers we may look at Eminence
Lab 12 as well.
There are a lot on the subject of Volt B2500.1 and other Volt drivers at this forum. But my reflection is has everyone taking a position really heard them? In my room which is about 5x3.5 meters with a lot of acoustic treatment I am able to get a fast , deep and contoured bass reproduction that some long-throw drivers simply can´t compete with. Going to hifi fairs tells me that many manufacturers struggles with not too good performance at high cost. OK room acoustics is fundamental but some musicality may also count...in conjunction with some technical skills. = I took me some years of fine tuning to get were I am today but now I am proud about the achievement.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74938&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27135&highlight=
If we expand the choices to 12" drivers we may look at Eminence
Lab 12 as well.
There are a lot on the subject of Volt B2500.1 and other Volt drivers at this forum. But my reflection is has everyone taking a position really heard them? In my room which is about 5x3.5 meters with a lot of acoustic treatment I am able to get a fast , deep and contoured bass reproduction that some long-throw drivers simply can´t compete with.
Going to hifi fairs tells me that many manufacturers struggles with not too good performance at high cost. OK room acoustics is fundamental but some musicality may also count...in conjunction with some technical skills. = I took me some years of fine tuning to get were I am today but now I am proud about the achievement. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74938&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27135&highlight=
Hi,
I'm not saying a new driver if suitable would not be better,
the issue is it significantly better /cost effective ?
Now if you picked up another Stentor v1 sub secondhand
you can pretty much guarantee :
a) 6dB more max SPL and will sound like more (loudness curves)
b) due to a) more apparent extension (loudness curves again)
c) smoother in room response if placed correctly
d) better integration with each speaker if placed correctly
e) lower distortion / compression for a given listening level
f) all the above together significantly improves percieved quality
g) downside - yet another box.
Out of interest what are the port dimensions for the 70L box ?
A higher efficiency driver means less bass extension generally,
though for subs what counts is driver volume displacement
and enough juice to use it all taking into account active EQ.
sreten.
I'm not saying a new driver if suitable would not be better,
the issue is it significantly better /cost effective ?
Now if you picked up another Stentor v1 sub secondhand
you can pretty much guarantee :
a) 6dB more max SPL and will sound like more (loudness curves)
b) due to a) more apparent extension (loudness curves again)
c) smoother in room response if placed correctly
d) better integration with each speaker if placed correctly
e) lower distortion / compression for a given listening level
f) all the above together significantly improves percieved quality
g) downside - yet another box.
Out of interest what are the port dimensions for the 70L box ?
A higher efficiency driver means less bass extension generally,
though for subs what counts is driver volume displacement
and enough juice to use it all taking into account active EQ.
sreten.Yes i believe this guy Andian Kingston used an Enimance drive though an 18" unit......but the monster he built was the size of a dinning table by the looks of it..............but then again the houses in the US / Can are a good 40% larger than the average homes in the Uk.
It would be really good to try a B2500.1just to see if it did make a difference........and i'll admit i'm out of my depths with most of you guys who build your own units /amp etc but there's one thing i'm very good at and thats listening to people and systems sonic/audio of sound changes.
Does any one have a B2500.1 i could try to see if there was any significant performance benefits.......i would make it worth your while financially or you may wanted to sell it to me......but more over it would be just good to know.
It would be really good to try a B2500.1just to see if it did make a difference........and i'll admit i'm out of my depths with most of you guys who build your own units /amp etc but there's one thing i'm very good at and thats listening to people and systems sonic/audio of sound changes.
Does any one have a B2500.1 i could try to see if there was any significant performance benefits.......i would make it worth your while financially or you may wanted to sell it to me......but more over it would be just good to know.
I use to do a simple simulation at this site. In Swedish but i think most of it is understandable. I also have a Sound Easy simulation program which is more advanced.
http://www.ljudia.se/se/teknik/isd/vented.html
You may insert Vas, Fs and Qts click "optimum" and the simple program will suggest an alignment for you . Sometimes this leads to an unreasonable result. You can then change the suggested digits with your own proposal ( for box dize inliters and the tuning frequency) then press the return button. For a vented box you will get a Vb which stands for the internal volume of the box (deduct the displacement of the driver and of the vent) and a Fb which stands for the tuning frequency.
Insert these values at the page to the far right, claim the inside diameter in centimeters of the vent tube and the numbers of tubes usually one(1). by hitting the return button you will get an answer for the length of the tube in cm.
I don´t want to do this for you as you will learn; -by playing around , that there is eventually a lot of alignments possible
ref. Bullock on Boxes. The tricky thing is to learn how different alignments sound. Simulations and measurements are good things but you have to relate them to what sounds most "real" or what you prefer. In addition the parameters for a certain driver may vary much between reality and the manufacturers specifications. Some manufacturers seems better than others in this respect. Seas of Norway seems better than Scan-speak altough the Scandinavian manufacturers have a tendency to merge...
My own alignments are of the type "extended shelf" which leads (in this case) to a loss of about 3 dB in efficiency.
http://www.ljudia.se/se/teknik/isd/vented.html
You may insert Vas, Fs and Qts click "optimum" and the simple program will suggest an alignment for you . Sometimes this leads to an unreasonable result. You can then change the suggested digits with your own proposal ( for box dize inliters and the tuning frequency) then press the return button. For a vented box you will get a Vb which stands for the internal volume of the box (deduct the displacement of the driver and of the vent) and a Fb which stands for the tuning frequency.
Insert these values at the page to the far right, claim the inside diameter in centimeters of the vent tube and the numbers of tubes usually one(1). by hitting the return button you will get an answer for the length of the tube in cm.
I don´t want to do this for you as you will learn; -by playing around , that there is eventually a lot of alignments possible
ref. Bullock on Boxes. The tricky thing is to learn how different alignments sound. Simulations and measurements are good things but you have to relate them to what sounds most "real" or what you prefer. In addition the parameters for a certain driver may vary much between reality and the manufacturers specifications. Some manufacturers seems better than others in this respect. Seas of Norway seems better than Scan-speak altough the Scandinavian manufacturers have a tendency to merge...
My own alignments are of the type "extended shelf" which leads (in this case) to a loss of about 3 dB in efficiency.
Provided you have opened the right page "Basreflex system" which means Vented boxes....
My translation:
Allt du behöver göra är att mata in högtalarparametrarna: Vas, Fs och Qts .
All you have to do is to claim the parameters of the driver Vas, Fs and Qts ( you insert your values instead of those that are stated as "default " values, right. So PLEASE DELETE the default values at first for each box)
Klicka "Optimum" för att beräkna optimal basreflexlåda, eller mata in dina egna värden på Vb och Fb.
Click "optimum" to compute the right size of the vented box and the port frequency. You can replace these values with your own
e.g. diminish the box . But then you have to hit the Enter (return)
button to see how the curve changes.
Tryck ENTER i sista fältet för att beräkna
My translation:
Allt du behöver göra är att mata in högtalarparametrarna: Vas, Fs och Qts .
All you have to do is to claim the parameters of the driver Vas, Fs and Qts ( you insert your values instead of those that are stated as "default " values, right. So PLEASE DELETE the default values at first for each box)
Klicka "Optimum" för att beräkna optimal basreflexlåda, eller mata in dina egna värden på Vb och Fb.
Click "optimum" to compute the right size of the vented box and the port frequency. You can replace these values with your own
e.g. diminish the box . But then you have to hit the Enter (return)
button to see how the curve changes.
Tryck ENTER i sista fältet för att beräkna
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