You've seen the package -- Philips LED Floodlamp -- lasts 22.8 years! Well, the ones I purchased last year all started blinking. I took one back to Home Depot and the gal said to go into the lamp department and get a replacement. Nice fella helps me out, we searched the entire lamp area but not carried anymore, but a suitable 17W replacement, almost identical was found. When I took it to the register, the nice young lady said "It's not the identical replacement", and one of the other folks said "Yeah, that model fails."
I guess they stopped carrying it for a reason.
Philips now has a disclaimer on the packaging -- the bulb can only be used 3 hours per day for the life expectancy to be 22.8 years.
I guess they stopped carrying it for a reason.
Philips now has a disclaimer on the packaging -- the bulb can only be used 3 hours per day for the life expectancy to be 22.8 years.
Right... 3hrs or the HEAT BUILD UP *toasts* the suckah!! 😀
What dies apparently is the SMPS type thingie that they hide in the base, inside an epoxy or silicone rubber filler.
I bought a lot of 22 pcs of random "big box store" LED light returns, might have been from a home improvement big box judging by the brands found. I had 5-6 duds. One blinks. Looks like all died due to the power supply going fryland. Doesn't seem like there is any heatsinking available to the PS, and since heat travels UP, with the light facing down, the heat travels up!
I also have a Phillips replacement for a standard bulb. It's the one with the orange looking outer plastic. It gets HOT!!
LED bulbs produce light at higher efficiency than do tungsten or CFLs, but still they make a lot of heat. They don't have this technology worked out yet, imo.
I had one bulb that had the diffuser on it, pulled that off for my application, WAY more light! 😀 Another one that had the glass bulb to fake the tungsten bulb, that one was broken, so it removed the remnants - again way more light - which was fine for my application...
Anyhow I think the power supplies are dying, not the LEDs.
_-_-
What dies apparently is the SMPS type thingie that they hide in the base, inside an epoxy or silicone rubber filler.
I bought a lot of 22 pcs of random "big box store" LED light returns, might have been from a home improvement big box judging by the brands found. I had 5-6 duds. One blinks. Looks like all died due to the power supply going fryland. Doesn't seem like there is any heatsinking available to the PS, and since heat travels UP, with the light facing down, the heat travels up!
I also have a Phillips replacement for a standard bulb. It's the one with the orange looking outer plastic. It gets HOT!!
LED bulbs produce light at higher efficiency than do tungsten or CFLs, but still they make a lot of heat. They don't have this technology worked out yet, imo.
I had one bulb that had the diffuser on it, pulled that off for my application, WAY more light! 😀 Another one that had the glass bulb to fake the tungsten bulb, that one was broken, so it removed the remnants - again way more light - which was fine for my application...
Anyhow I think the power supplies are dying, not the LEDs.
_-_-
I should add that the prices of the replacement devices are significantly higher over a year -- or at least in this particular case. Typically, prices decline 15% with each doubling of cumulative volume.
One of the issues with CFL's were the caps in the SMPS -- not rated for the heat.
My advice is to use heavy duty incandescents in high-hats. They are still available.
One of the issues with CFL's were the caps in the SMPS -- not rated for the heat.
My advice is to use heavy duty incandescents in high-hats. They are still available.
Guess I have been lucky. My ceiling cans all run LED now. I have the kind that replaced the trim so they seal to the room (one story house) This saves a lot of energy. Not the bulb efficiency, but they don't act like powered vents like incandescent did.
I would expect a design or two be bad. This is a new technology and mistakes are to be expected. Any base up bulb is going to have a hot socket. Phillips should have known better, but they are all struggling to get costs down to the CFL level. Or just crap Chinese parts.
Just waiting for some amplifier DIY ideas for the exotic heat sinks some of the lamps use.
BTW, white LED's are florescent bulbs. They are about the same efficiency as a CFL in total light output.
I would expect a design or two be bad. This is a new technology and mistakes are to be expected. Any base up bulb is going to have a hot socket. Phillips should have known better, but they are all struggling to get costs down to the CFL level. Or just crap Chinese parts.
Just waiting for some amplifier DIY ideas for the exotic heat sinks some of the lamps use.
BTW, white LED's are florescent bulbs. They are about the same efficiency as a CFL in total light output.
Yeah, but oddly enough they just managed to DOUBLE the electric bills over the past few months... coincidence?
I've been running led light bulbs for a few years now, and have had the best luck with the 3 x 1W E27 Par 20 lights. I haven't had one go out on me yet, in 2+ years.
I just use inexpensive bulbs from China or Hong Kong that I get on eBay.
My brother has 10 of the higher powered 3 x 3W bulbs, but 3 of them started blinking after about 6 months.
I found out that all of them had an led go bad, but the supplies where still good.
Ordered some bulk 3W smd leds from the same source, replaced the bad leds and all was good.
One of the repaired lights did start blinking after awhile, so now I just replace all of the leds.
When you remove the leds from the board, you can add some thermal compound under them to help keep them from overheating.
I just use inexpensive bulbs from China or Hong Kong that I get on eBay.
My brother has 10 of the higher powered 3 x 3W bulbs, but 3 of them started blinking after about 6 months.
I found out that all of them had an led go bad, but the supplies where still good.
Ordered some bulk 3W smd leds from the same source, replaced the bad leds and all was good.
One of the repaired lights did start blinking after awhile, so now I just replace all of the leds.
When you remove the leds from the board, you can add some thermal compound under them to help keep them from overheating.
Btw, if you have the bulb apart for repair, you can easily add some cooling holes for base up bulbs.
Most par bulbs have a plastic collar between screw in base and the metal housing.
If you are very careful, you can drill a few small holes into that collar to help cool the assembly.
If you remove the internals and pull out but not actually disconnect anything, then you can proceed to drill without having to worry about hitting anything inside.
Most par bulbs have a plastic collar between screw in base and the metal housing.
If you are very careful, you can drill a few small holes into that collar to help cool the assembly.
If you remove the internals and pull out but not actually disconnect anything, then you can proceed to drill without having to worry about hitting anything inside.
Bulb partially disassembled & 3 ventilation holes added to white plastic spacer.
If you have drill bit collar stops, you might be able to drill the holes without having to take anything apart.
You could also add some more ventilation holes to the metal housing as well, in addition to the 3 elongated slots they already have.
If you have drill bit collar stops, you might be able to drill the holes without having to take anything apart.
You could also add some more ventilation holes to the metal housing as well, in addition to the 3 elongated slots they already have.
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I too run the small-er 3 or 4x 1w and 3 x 2w, etc bulbs, but these run way cooler than the larger PAR 75 or bigger size LED bulbs... I think the heat build up in the larger bulbs is considerable, and the heat exchanging parts are not so great.
_-_-bear
_-_-bear
Yeah, it's not likely the LEDs themselves. I've been doing general illumination with 5mm LEDs for about 5 years, built fixtures for 4000 of 'em. While they've dimmed after 5 years running 8 hours/day, none have actually gone out... Just completed replacement with peel-stick strips.
There are good lamps out there for residential and commercial use, you just have to read the specs carefully and be prepared to pay a bit more. At work we sell Philips Color Kinetics as well as a few other brands for theatrical and architectural use. There's also a really great company in Knoxville that makes stuff for both of the previously mentioned applications as well as resessed can replacements. For the cans you actually replace the guts with a light engine assembly that includes the engine , optics, driver and cooling. The technology is still fairly young but there are excellent products out there now. The costs will continue to fall.
Overdriving and undercooling the sources is what kills them and is the difference between an $8 pos from Home Depot and a $30 lamp from a distributor that knows what the heck they're doing. Beyond that you get into better CRI which is what adds to the cost of the individual sources and adds further to the overall cost.
Find me an $8 LED at Home Despot!! They are not that inexpensive that I can find! More like stating around 14 and going up to like stratospheric prices...
the phillips "dimmable" that has the orange plastic goes for over $30 each!!
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the phillips "dimmable" that has the orange plastic goes for over $30 each!!
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find me a 60 cent incandescence bulb. Oh wait. That 100+ yr old proven technology was canceled due to contracts....er....enviro uuuhh money....I mean saving energy or somescam like that. 
I prefer the color of incandescence bulbs, that being most visible colors.🙂 I have seen but do not have LED bulbs. Perhaps when the technology improves? I notice several comments about heat buildup. Any fires ever been reported related to burning power supplies from inside bulb enclosure?
BTW, I still have a good supply of long life 100W incandescence bulbs stashed away.😉
I prefer the color of incandescence bulbs, that being most visible colors.🙂 I have seen but do not have LED bulbs. Perhaps when the technology improves? I notice several comments about heat buildup. Any fires ever been reported related to burning power supplies from inside bulb enclosure?BTW, I still have a good supply of long life 100W incandescence bulbs stashed away.😉
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I have had problems with some LED lamps and heat build up, MR10 types, the housings can have a huge effect on heat retention...
$8 or $14, my point remains. The cheapest lamp we touch and have a track record with is a $30 120w eqiv BR40. 5 year warranty, CRI of 82 (not terrible) and available in a few color temps. Fully dimmable to less than 1%. Standard forward phase dimming compatible.
Probably only good for outdoor floodlight in a residential application or if you happen to have gothic chandeliers in your living room. 🙂
Probably only good for outdoor floodlight in a residential application or if you happen to have gothic chandeliers in your living room. 🙂
One major problem with both CFL and LED lamps is that the socket they go into was not designed for them.
Incandescent lamps radiate most of their heat with the light from the maljor area of the glass envelope.
CFL and LED lamps have their heat concentrated in the base where the SS electronics iresides.
If a socket does not have sufficient ventelation the heat will build up and destroy the electronics.
Desk lamps are thus a good location for both CFL and LED Lamps. there is plenty of air curculation to cool the electronics.
Overhead ceiling lamps are generally a poor location due to the enclosed nature of the lamps.
Some ceiling fan fixtures are good as they have openings on top of the lamp housing allowing for air circulation.
Others such as the Candelabra form have lamp housings that concentrate heat in the base and are poor choices.
It is all a matter of applying technology where it works.
I've just recently replaced two CFL flood lamps outside my garage with LED flood lamps. The CFLs were the first to I purchased many years ago. They had plenty of air circulation around the base and as such had a reasonable product life.
I switched back to incandescent bulbs in my kitchen ceiling fan because it is the candelabra form which causes CFLs to fail in three months. I write the install date on every CFL/LED lamp I install so I can track how long they last.
Incandescent lamps radiate most of their heat with the light from the maljor area of the glass envelope.
CFL and LED lamps have their heat concentrated in the base where the SS electronics iresides.
If a socket does not have sufficient ventelation the heat will build up and destroy the electronics.
Desk lamps are thus a good location for both CFL and LED Lamps. there is plenty of air curculation to cool the electronics.
Overhead ceiling lamps are generally a poor location due to the enclosed nature of the lamps.
Some ceiling fan fixtures are good as they have openings on top of the lamp housing allowing for air circulation.
Others such as the Candelabra form have lamp housings that concentrate heat in the base and are poor choices.
It is all a matter of applying technology where it works.
I've just recently replaced two CFL flood lamps outside my garage with LED flood lamps. The CFLs were the first to I purchased many years ago. They had plenty of air circulation around the base and as such had a reasonable product life.
I switched back to incandescent bulbs in my kitchen ceiling fan because it is the candelabra form which causes CFLs to fail in three months. I write the install date on every CFL/LED lamp I install so I can track how long they last.
The point is twofold, the energy cost to manufacture (ignored universally in public discussions) and the cost to the consumer vs. energy costs (conveniently just jacked up through the roof - at the same time they trumpet that natural gas is suddenly overflowing) as compared to the energy cost of a standard incandescent bulb to run vs. the cost to mfr and buy.
Something is askew in my view...
_-_-
PS. I just pulled 4 x 4 bulb 40watt fluorescent bulb fixtures which total 1600 watts of usage from above my main benches... installing a track light system with LED bulbs merely to cut the usage from 1600 to around 150... given the present cost of powah, I saw no choice.
Something is askew in my view...
_-_-
PS. I just pulled 4 x 4 bulb 40watt fluorescent bulb fixtures which total 1600 watts of usage from above my main benches... installing a track light system with LED bulbs merely to cut the usage from 1600 to around 150... given the present cost of powah, I saw no choice.
How much did the track lights cost Bear?
I agree that the total cost of CFLs from manufacture thorugh recycling is greater than the cost of energy saved(even if they last as long as manufacturers predict).
LEDs are an open questio for me since they do not contain Mercury or other toxic metals to any great degree.
I've only puchased four LED lamps so far. Two are the flood lamps at the garage, and the other two are the outside lamp at the kitchen (60W) and a lamp at the bottom of the stairs (40W).
On the plus side, the two CFLs in the lamps in the living room have been there for over five years and they are on at least 8hrs per day.
I agree that the total cost of CFLs from manufacture thorugh recycling is greater than the cost of energy saved(even if they last as long as manufacturers predict).
LEDs are an open questio for me since they do not contain Mercury or other toxic metals to any great degree.
I've only puchased four LED lamps so far. Two are the flood lamps at the garage, and the other two are the outside lamp at the kitchen (60W) and a lamp at the bottom of the stairs (40W).
On the plus side, the two CFLs in the lamps in the living room have been there for over five years and they are on at least 8hrs per day.
originally in the kitchen we had some lights that used 8 GU10 50 watt halagen lamps, looked nice but in the summer you could feel the heat standing under them. The wife would get up around 5:30 AM turn them on and leave them on till I woke up a few hours later and turned them off. Sometimes when I was working midnight shift I would come home at 10AM and the lights were still on!!!!. I tried CFLs but after a couple of months they would start dim and eventually warm up and put out a decent light. I bought some LEDs 1 watt and 3 watt at $20 each locally but they were not bright enough. I found some LED GU10 bulbs on ebay from China, 12 watt at around 4$ each. I bought a mixture of cool white and warm white. So far so good. I then bought some E27 bulbs to use in the living room table lamps, 2 out of 10 were bad. I opened them up and found a broken wire going from the base of the bulb to the small circuit board. I cut off the shrink wrap from the board and found a diode bridge a capacitor and a resistor, no smps power supply. The capacitor drops the voltage and of course doesn't get hot. The bulbs after being on for a few hours are warm but not hot.
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