beautiful speakers. congrats. Im about to do something similar with hi-eff pro drivers using 1st order xo: 15" woofer, 6.5 " mids and planar in horns
Well done 😎
May I ask please ? How would you proceed in te measurment way to setup the croosover : listening position ? In axis with each speaker to have a close match, etc ?
How much did it cost in wood + CNC service ?
pretty good looking like it is and will be sexy with some danish oil I surmise 🙂
Are you sure 18W are enough for short peak transcient as such 115 dB level for instance ? (ah, I forgett you're going to ative for the little 18" thingy😀)
May I ask please ? How would you proceed in te measurment way to setup the croosover : listening position ? In axis with each speaker to have a close match, etc ?
How much did it cost in wood + CNC service ?
pretty good looking like it is and will be sexy with some danish oil I surmise 🙂
Are you sure 18W are enough for short peak transcient as such 115 dB level for instance ? (ah, I forgett you're going to ative for the little 18" thingy😀)
Hey,
I would be very interested in a comparison to the lx521 that I see in the background? And how a box speaker like this compares to open baffle?
Thanks
I would be very interested in a comparison to the lx521 that I see in the background? And how a box speaker like this compares to open baffle?
Thanks
Thanks!
Measurements were taking on axis with the tweeter 1m distance from.
Offset was calculated with a full in pahse measurement and approaching each speaker (Jeff bagby procedure) and the results are:
Super Tweeter offset: -0,9cm (minus is away from mic)
Mid offset: +3,86cm (closer to the mic)
Woofer offset: +2,54cm (closer to the mic=
I haven't used CNC because I had no time to make the plans and to send to the CNC company to be finished before lockdown, and i wanted to build this project during lockdown. I did everything and evry cut unless main cuts as seen in first picture.
Total cost for wood was 440€ without CNC and, if I had ordered CNC, it should have been no more than 600€. It worth the money VERY VERY MUCH using CNC.
Well... I have to say i have no idea if the 18" is enough for short peak. Sensitivity is 98dB and I have driven with a "standard" active crossover with a 18Wpc tubes amp with any problem and quite good sound.
For sure, active mode has any problem with them.
Not an easy comparison.
I have been listening to both of them and comparing them switching several times in the same song and passage (same source, 2 different outputs).
Lx521 are absolutely amazing. Incredibly detailed and neutral. The 2 subs in W config are really killers.
I would say that there is a bit more detail (compared to The Loudspeaker) in the high tones, high voices and 360º sound, but not my favourite speaker for rock music. I would deffinitively reccomend for jazz, classical and even electronic. The 2 subs has a lot of punch and this speaker is very "analytic", more "dry" compared to The Loudspeaker.
The Loudspeaker is more "coloured" more like the speakers we are used to listen to. It's a superb player in any kind of music an it beats the LX521 in rock music. Very detailed in each freq and very soft. Very good soundstage. Something like an allroad.
If I had to give some points comparing both of them:
LX521 The loudspeaker
Classical: LX521 - 100 The loudspeaker - 95
Jazz: LX521 - 100 The loudspeaker - 95
Rock: LX521 - 80 The loudspeaker - 100
Pop: LX521 - 85 The loudspeaker - 100
Electronic LX521 - 100 The loudspeaker - 95
But there is something important to say: if you are listening to any of those for a while (5 or 10 minutes) and you switch to the other speaker you will say: I like more former one..... but the same thing will happen again in the next switch 😀
IMHO: Both of them are deffinitive speakers, but if your main music is rock or pop I would go for The Loudspeaker.
Great insight Raelman, thank you for taking the time to put this thread together and its great to see it compared to a reference.
I am about to build a fully active set of the Loudspeaker and just started doing the CAD work for the cabinet. I was hoping you'd be able to ask some questions.
When you say the LX521 has more details in the high's are you referring to where the CD is operating or the super tweeter?
What have you been using as an active crossover to test? I am currently looking at what to use.
Final Question: I noticed you changed the 18" driver, seems like a smart compromise! I was looking to use Troels preferred 10" driver - 10NDA610 (I have heard great things about it, although slightly more expensive) that he tried to make fit, but couldn't passively without over-complicating the X-Over. Do you think it would be fine to replace it, as I am running an active x-over and can correct the baffle step?
I am about to build a fully active set of the Loudspeaker and just started doing the CAD work for the cabinet. I was hoping you'd be able to ask some questions.
When you say the LX521 has more details in the high's are you referring to where the CD is operating or the super tweeter?
What have you been using as an active crossover to test? I am currently looking at what to use.
Final Question: I noticed you changed the 18" driver, seems like a smart compromise! I was looking to use Troels preferred 10" driver - 10NDA610 (I have heard great things about it, although slightly more expensive) that he tried to make fit, but couldn't passively without over-complicating the X-Over. Do you think it would be fine to replace it, as I am running an active x-over and can correct the baffle step?
I suppose there will be no problem replacing the midwoofer if you can take measurements and adjust your active crossover.
I have used minidsp 2x4 (2 of them) and Waf Audio Nadja for the active crossovers.
I will help in what I can do, no problem to ask.
I have used minidsp 2x4 (2 of them) and Waf Audio Nadja for the active crossovers.
I will help in what I can do, no problem to ask.
Well.
After a lot of work and tests, this is what I think is a good crossover for this speaker. at least, it sounds very good to me.
Please, understand I won't make the values public because this is not my own idea or design. I have based all my work in Troel's design, schema and work and there is no doubt that he is a reputated designer and I'm not.
I have tried to approach my system to a good crossover.
If you feel you can trust in this crossover and this project (remember the 18" is a different driver) you can contact me and I will try to help you in private.
Final response smoothed 1/24dB
Final response smoothed 1/6dB
Schema
There is some tricky with this measurements. Mid and Woofer measurements have been taken from 20cm on axis with the driver, with crossover installed, normalised and merged to the final system because it's impossible to get this curve measuring from 1m distance.
In fact is something that maybe Troels did as he says in The Loudspeaker 1.
this speaker doesn't measures well at 1m but sounds really really good.
After a lot of work and tests, this is what I think is a good crossover for this speaker. at least, it sounds very good to me.
Please, understand I won't make the values public because this is not my own idea or design. I have based all my work in Troel's design, schema and work and there is no doubt that he is a reputated designer and I'm not.
I have tried to approach my system to a good crossover.
If you feel you can trust in this crossover and this project (remember the 18" is a different driver) you can contact me and I will try to help you in private.
Final response smoothed 1/24dB
Final response smoothed 1/6dB
Schema
There is some tricky with this measurements. Mid and Woofer measurements have been taken from 20cm on axis with the driver, with crossover installed, normalised and merged to the final system because it's impossible to get this curve measuring from 1m distance.
In fact is something that maybe Troels did as he says in The Loudspeaker 1.
this speaker doesn't measures well at 1m but sounds really really good.
Thanks for the answers.... very inspiring work, yah. I have yet to finish a little 3 way monitors but I ask myself for further project as I consider those days life can be shorter than I had thought...
the 18"... asked because if the efficienty is good, don't understant if such a beast needs a lot of current or not to move with velocity and control and with high exursion...but I realize now high execrcusion with a 18" in a home is a strange question (forgett it please, home is not a venue with PA driver, here TG want low movements but efficient)...
Edit...that's incredible the cost of wood today for those whom have known what is monney before euros whatever the country in our part of the world...
the 18"... asked because if the efficienty is good, don't understant if such a beast needs a lot of current or not to move with velocity and control and with high exursion...but I realize now high execrcusion with a 18" in a home is a strange question (forgett it please, home is not a venue with PA driver, here TG want low movements but efficient)...
Edit...that's incredible the cost of wood today for those whom have known what is monney before euros whatever the country in our part of the world...
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Troel is bit old school builder, does not think about power response.
The loudspeaker has falling reference response, if placed relatively damped room and 4-5m listening distance thing might be bass heavy.
This crossover can be made better
Raelman: I would take that faital too over bms 862.
The loudspeaker has falling reference response, if placed relatively damped room and 4-5m listening distance thing might be bass heavy.
This crossover can be made better
Raelman: I would take that faital too over bms 862.
Manninen
have you heard the Loudspeaker,,,if not, how can you say it will be bass heavy,,
the bass from the 18" is just right,,,and i have tried to make a more strait response,,,
this it not necessary better,,
and about perfect power response,,,,i have heard hifi speaker,,with perfect power response
does it give me the same as the Loudspeaker,,,absolute no
give me hint to make the crossover better ,,i can tell you it is not easy,,
have you heard the Loudspeaker,,,if not, how can you say it will be bass heavy,,
the bass from the 18" is just right,,,and i have tried to make a more strait response,,,
this it not necessary better,,
and about perfect power response,,,,i have heard hifi speaker,,with perfect power response
does it give me the same as the Loudspeaker,,,absolute no
give me hint to make the crossover better ,,i can tell you it is not easy,,
notice T-G has SoundEasy that has optimisation options also + the experience. So it's not easy to compete if one is just a time to time enthusiast.
Raelman, you certainly should setup at your taste for listening position. I like already the curve as it is because the progressive 5 db dive from 1.5 k hz... but for me it's when I'm in the sweet spot. the length between the triangle base and the chair is almost the double than the width between the speaker : so not easy for the soundstage for most of classic speakers. I have also a 5 db notch between circa 2.5 k hz to 4.5 k hz and like it in my damped room. You have maybe more concrete floor than my plain wood parquet where you live (ahaha due to the weight don't call me to bring up the speakers at the upper story please...)
Raelman, you certainly should setup at your taste for listening position. I like already the curve as it is because the progressive 5 db dive from 1.5 k hz... but for me it's when I'm in the sweet spot. the length between the triangle base and the chair is almost the double than the width between the speaker : so not easy for the soundstage for most of classic speakers. I have also a 5 db notch between circa 2.5 k hz to 4.5 k hz and like it in my damped room. You have maybe more concrete floor than my plain wood parquet where you live (ahaha due to the weight don't call me to bring up the speakers at the upper story please...)
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Well I have taken measuremengts with Arta and simulated crossover with XSIM, and tuned to my taste for sure. I will keep on trying to improve it, but I think it's a much better idea listen it and enjoy it.
BTW: I have compared not only to LX521 but with other DIY and comercial speakers.
Now that lockdown has been reducted, some people will come here to listen them. Many ears can make a better idea of what I have.
BTW: I have compared not only to LX521 but with other DIY and comercial speakers.
Now that lockdown has been reducted, some people will come here to listen them. Many ears can make a better idea of what I have.
Hi Raelman,
I've been messaging with Troels about speakers and he suggested The Loudspeaker as one of the best options for me (I'm putting them in a 66m2 room). Your idea of replacing the BMS woofer with the FaitalPro seems really appealing. The BMS drivers would cost me over $1400 USD shipped.
I am considering making the semi-active version and bi-amping. I know that you built your own crossover eventually, but I would be very interested to hear what you needed to do to adjust for the new woofer. Did you use a measurement mic and try to match Troel's frequency curve?
I have no experiece with speaker design, but if it's not too difficult to make the adjustment I will try this build.
Thanks!
David
I've been messaging with Troels about speakers and he suggested The Loudspeaker as one of the best options for me (I'm putting them in a 66m2 room). Your idea of replacing the BMS woofer with the FaitalPro seems really appealing. The BMS drivers would cost me over $1400 USD shipped.
I am considering making the semi-active version and bi-amping. I know that you built your own crossover eventually, but I would be very interested to hear what you needed to do to adjust for the new woofer. Did you use a measurement mic and try to match Troel's frequency curve?
I have no experiece with speaker design, but if it's not too difficult to make the adjustment I will try this build.
Thanks!
David
Maybe with the big room, better bass than the Faital 15PR400 will do, ask TG about the Faital 15FH520 perhaps (stiffer cone)
Hello Kalil.
To match the higher sensitivity of faital pro 18FH510 you have to remove the resistor at the woofer section (after the cap to earth) and remove the Lpads from the mid and tweeter.
I took my measurements and, based on original curve, mine is pretty similar, but the curves are not the only truth. My ears and all those that came to listen the speakers agree the sound is perfect and incredible.
To match the higher sensitivity of faital pro 18FH510 you have to remove the resistor at the woofer section (after the cap to earth) and remove the Lpads from the mid and tweeter.
I took my measurements and, based on original curve, mine is pretty similar, but the curves are not the only truth. My ears and all those that came to listen the speakers agree the sound is perfect and incredible.
Thank you, Raelman! Would I need to match the sensitivity of the FaitalPro woofer if I was bi-amping? I see that Troels has the Hypex version just using DSP for the crossover. A fully passive version is appealing, though.
I'm less than a week away from being ready to buy the set of drivers for this project (following you @raelman with the Faital 18", but I already have the Visaton TL16H super tweeters instead of the Fostex).
I'm committed to the complete passive xo solution so I can run the speaker off 1 amp. Most of my previous DIY speakers have been active solutions and this time after a more 'simplistic' setup.
Looking forward to the build!
I'm committed to the complete passive xo solution so I can run the speaker off 1 amp. Most of my previous DIY speakers have been active solutions and this time after a more 'simplistic' setup.
Looking forward to the build!