Trinity DAC ♪ Discussion | All Dat DAC Jazz | Talk & Evaluation...
Alright, as suggested by a a friendly member here, I would like to start a new thread on the Trinity DAC.
...LIANOTEC and everything else related: Digital to Analog Circumcision (DAC). ...Circuitry (circuit boards), Measurements, Listening Rebutals, Internal & External Design, Price/Value Ratio, True Performance for both Digital and Analog people, Reciprocities, Synchronicities, Syntheses, Systems Analysis, and All that systematic & systemic Haze.
I'm no expert and I don't own one and even less listened to one.
But I've read about it here and there; by some owners, by some pro reviewers, and by its creator himself.
With time I will share some of them comments, reviews, and technical articles with measurement graphs.
Meanwhile feel free to share your own input, so that we can start from there.
The Trinity DAC is slowly starting to gather high praise in the audio community as one of the best DAC if not the best DAC right now in the year 2014.
And I also believe that it is not an inexpensive DAC but rather a high end one (expensive).
My name is Bob by the way.
Alright, as suggested by a a friendly member here, I would like to start a new thread on the Trinity DAC.
...LIANOTEC and everything else related: Digital to Analog Circumcision (DAC). ...Circuitry (circuit boards), Measurements, Listening Rebutals, Internal & External Design, Price/Value Ratio, True Performance for both Digital and Analog people, Reciprocities, Synchronicities, Syntheses, Systems Analysis, and All that systematic & systemic Haze.
I'm no expert and I don't own one and even less listened to one.
But I've read about it here and there; by some owners, by some pro reviewers, and by its creator himself.
With time I will share some of them comments, reviews, and technical articles with measurement graphs.
Meanwhile feel free to share your own input, so that we can start from there.
The Trinity DAC is slowly starting to gather high praise in the audio community as one of the best DAC if not the best DAC right now in the year 2014.
And I also believe that it is not an inexpensive DAC but rather a high end one (expensive).
My name is Bob by the way.
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Some pictures?
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* GALLERY: Wizard | Trinity
** Trinity Home: DAC
*** Trinity DAC (2013) Designer (maker): Dietmar Braueur
**** Trinity DAC price (MSRP - USD): $60,000 (40,000 Euros)
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According to some owners and reviewers, the Trinity DAC compares very well (and even surpasses) the dCS Da Vinci DAC.
...More to come.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
_____________
* GALLERY: Wizard | Trinity
** Trinity Home: DAC
*** Trinity DAC (2013) Designer (maker): Dietmar Braueur
**** Trinity DAC price (MSRP - USD): $60,000 (40,000 Euros)
_________
According to some owners and reviewers, the Trinity DAC compares very well (and even surpasses) the dCS Da Vinci DAC.
...More to come.
Informative thread here where the designer has contributed interesting technical tidbits (beyond what one of his early adopters considers wise to divulge 😉) : Trinity DAC
Pic from that thread of the DAC board
Pic from that thread of the DAC board
Attachments
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Julf, we are simply observing and evaluating the work of a professional DAC designer and implementer. ... Mr. Dietmar Braueur.
And from there we are free to improve upon from our own observations and analysis.
...And of course to comment in his choice of design (implementation and all that jazz).
Is there something missing perhaps that DIY has simply omitted all in all?
Are we constrained like inside a vise-grip to the rules established by the audio establishment?
Are we here to create and learn? ...To criticize and analyse? ...To accept and reject? ...To improve our personal and social zone of comfort? ...To live together and let live? 🙂
Cheers,
Bob
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By the way abraxalito, that link you just provided above, she is not accessible to all, but only to the fortunate few.
It's ok though. 🙂
And from there we are free to improve upon from our own observations and analysis.
...And of course to comment in his choice of design (implementation and all that jazz).
Is there something missing perhaps that DIY has simply omitted all in all?
Are we constrained like inside a vise-grip to the rules established by the audio establishment?
Are we here to create and learn? ...To criticize and analyse? ...To accept and reject? ...To improve our personal and social zone of comfort? ...To live together and let live? 🙂
Cheers,
Bob
__________
By the way abraxalito, that link you just provided above, she is not accessible to all, but only to the fortunate few.
It's ok though. 🙂
Oh Bob - do you mean the powers that be over on WBF have banned your IP? Mine too, but my ISP does not always give me the same IP.....😛
I'm interested in having a discussion about 'LIANOTEC' on this thread and whether its of any use to a DIYer. I'm also interested in discussing what might be the key elements in the design that give rise to the positive subjective reports. Lastly I'm interested in making some observations of the design based on the photos we have so far.
My main area of interest with DACs is in trying to correlate what's heard with specific features of a design.
I'm interested in having a discussion about 'LIANOTEC' on this thread and whether its of any use to a DIYer. I'm also interested in discussing what might be the key elements in the design that give rise to the positive subjective reports. Lastly I'm interested in making some observations of the design based on the photos we have so far.
My main area of interest with DACs is in trying to correlate what's heard with specific features of a design.
Lol, I'm not the only one in this unfair situation. 🙂 ...But let's forget about this; I know that we can further our knowledge much more here than somewhere else.
* LIANOTEC; me too, I am certainly most interested to learn more.
Again, we are on the exact same page here, and I know for a fact that other intelligent people are too. 😎
I want to know everything: What makes people thick about this new DAC, its net worth (audibly, measurably, and financially), plus the technical (digital) conversion which allows some people to hear what they hear (from their own set of ears).
Also, the comparison with other state-of-the-art DACs (Da Vinci, MSB Playback Designs and all).
...Ring DACs, ESS DACs, NOS DACs, B-B DACs, Multiple DACs (Dual and Quad-Differential Balanced mode), and even Multichannel DACs (7.1-channel) - Oscillation clock, Jitter elimination, Power Supply, Digital filtering, ...ALL.
Reviews with graphs (measurements) properly done would also help.
...And objectively and subjectively.
That's not asking too much here at diyAudio? 🙂
D'ACcord?
* LIANOTEC; me too, I am certainly most interested to learn more.
Again, we are on the exact same page here, and I know for a fact that other intelligent people are too. 😎
I want to know everything: What makes people thick about this new DAC, its net worth (audibly, measurably, and financially), plus the technical (digital) conversion which allows some people to hear what they hear (from their own set of ears).
Also, the comparison with other state-of-the-art DACs (Da Vinci, MSB Playback Designs and all).
...Ring DACs, ESS DACs, NOS DACs, B-B DACs, Multiple DACs (Dual and Quad-Differential Balanced mode), and even Multichannel DACs (7.1-channel) - Oscillation clock, Jitter elimination, Power Supply, Digital filtering, ...ALL.
Reviews with graphs (measurements) properly done would also help.
...And objectively and subjectively.
That's not asking too much here at diyAudio? 🙂
D'ACcord?
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Richard,
Seriously, they banned you on WBF?! You seemed to be one of the guiding lights over there, coaching and educating many of them through the often non-intuitive technology of digital audio. Not to mention, you were the reason I even found out that site existed. What happened? PM me, if you prefer.
Well, no DAC designer, but his description is 8 Dacs that each receive a delayed bit stream to effectively interpolate via hardware at the output. No output filter. So other than his circuit for achieving this delay it doesn't seem like an incredible thing.
Now his noise figure etc. are pretty darned good. The likely square wave and impulse response are much nicer than when an output filter is involved.
But is Gibb's phenomenon on square waves due to bandwidth limiting something that even matters with music? I don't really see that it is. It still might be a terrific DAC. But is the filterless approach the reason?
Now his noise figure etc. are pretty darned good. The likely square wave and impulse response are much nicer than when an output filter is involved.
But is Gibb's phenomenon on square waves due to bandwidth limiting something that even matters with music? I don't really see that it is. It still might be a terrific DAC. But is the filterless approach the reason?
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It's one of the key I believe (no analog active low-pass filter, but there is filtering enhancement above the norm ...).
There is much more to the LIANOTEC DAC, and that's exactly why we're here to find out.
And if we have to we'll get Dietmar himself to join us and contribute right here.
* I would love to get more and better close-up pics of the internals. I'll search for some, feel free to do the same, anyone.
** Impulse-optimized and Frequency Response-optimized.
...Sounds like a digital auto room correction and EQ system, with IIR and/or FIR digital filters (Time & Frequency domain).
*** Jitter is only 28fs - quite an achievement!
There is much more to the LIANOTEC DAC, and that's exactly why we're here to find out.
And if we have to we'll get Dietmar himself to join us and contribute right here.
* I would love to get more and better close-up pics of the internals. I'll search for some, feel free to do the same, anyone.
** Impulse-optimized and Frequency Response-optimized.
...Sounds like a digital auto room correction and EQ system, with IIR and/or FIR digital filters (Time & Frequency domain).
*** Jitter is only 28fs - quite an achievement!
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Do you mean where he discusses "DVD-Audio 192kHz/24bit" on this page?
Non-oversampling Digital filter-less DAC Concept
As you point out, this wouldn't happen with music (or a real A to D recording of a square wave).
Yep, that is what I mean. I have compared a dozen or so albums of digital music sample by sample, and not found a single incidence of something like a square wave or impulse to excite the ringing everyone worries about. Which means the waveforms get reconstructed just like Shannon-Nyquist theory says they will given the parameters of digital audio.
So given that, does a filter-less DAC do anything better on music than a good conventional DAC?
Richard, Julf, how you guys doin'?
...dCS custom Ring DAC or Trinity LIANOTEC DAC? ...Any thoughts at all?
...dCS custom Ring DAC or Trinity LIANOTEC DAC? ...Any thoughts at all?
Hi - doing fine, how about you?
From what I understand (but I might be wrong) the Trinity DAC has no analog filter at all. As some sort of low-pass filter is needed in any case (even if you do digital interpolation), I find that a controlled gentle low-pass function in the DAC itself is a better method than relying on the low-pass characteristics of your amp and speakers (that might cause intermodulation distortion).
Pretty good myself, rather busy working on my own DAC.
Was having a look over at the WBF thread just now and noticed that Dietmar has been emailed about this thread and seems rather concerned that we might be violating his patent on the Trinity - not sure why that would be. I did a fairly quick search for patents relating to it but didn't turn anything up on Google Patents.
Over on his company's website there's a couple of spectrum analyser plots which are rather instructive, perhaps I'll comment on them later.
Just noticed his posting. Sounds like he is a bit overly sensitive about his technology... If he really has some unique technological innovations that somebody could steal he would have protected it with patents and should have nothing to worry about.
Ah intimidation by the use of legal terms....old and proven to be a non-working technique. Mostly used by people that have to fear something theirselves.
Those were my thoughts too on reflection - if he's in fact bluffing about having 'patents' (he does claim more than one) then he'd be worried about having stuff copied.
However from my cursory inspection of what he's done there's nothing I'd be inclined to copy. Early days yet though in understanding everything.
However from my cursory inspection of what he's done there's nothing I'd be inclined to copy. Early days yet though in understanding everything.
Even if he is the holder of those patents, he can only act when people use them without his approval as long as the use is of a commercial nature.
If he tries to abuse those patents to stifle discussions about them, he's in for a very hard time in court... for he'll be trying to block basic rights (free speech)
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