active crossover, or using the passive crossover inside the speakers, the result will be the same? just will be bi-wiring, not bi-amping? so, what will be the difference in performance if using 2 of this amps?
Let me se if I understood, using one M-73 to amplify L horn and L tweeter + R horn + R tweeter, it will be bi-wiring because the amp just have 2 channels, but allows you to amplify to use 1 channel for amplify 2 drivers each side, so I presume it's not a bi-amp situation, because in that case, the output power will be divided by 4.
Is that correct?
Here's a picture of the M-73 inside: L'Audiotecnico: Pioneer - M73
Isn't a 4 channel amp?
Many thanks if you can clarify this for me sir.
Let me se if I understood, using one M-73 to amplify L horn and L tweeter + R horn + R tweeter, it will be bi-wiring because the amp just have 2 channels, but allows you to amplify to use 1 channel for amplify 2 drivers each side, so I presume it's not a bi-amp situation, because in that case, the output power will be divided by 4.
Is that correct?
Here's a picture of the M-73 inside: L'Audiotecnico: Pioneer - M73
Isn't a 4 channel amp?
Many thanks if you can clarify this for me sir.
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Now, that's confusing... 🙁
Can't understand why the application that with the M-73 amplifying 4 drivers it will be just bi-wiring and not bi-amping, as the amp have 4 speakers terminals, and when looking inside appears to have 4 channels...
Appreciate if someone can clarify this for me...
Many thanks
Can't understand why the application that with the M-73 amplifying 4 drivers it will be just bi-wiring and not bi-amping, as the amp have 4 speakers terminals, and when looking inside appears to have 4 channels...
Appreciate if someone can clarify this for me...
Many thanks
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Does that unit have 4 amp channels?
Many receivers can switch their amps between different sets of speakers that are installed in different rooms (that's called "creeping featuritis" where manufacturers endlessly add useless features to advertise despite being little demand for those features from consumers). But there still might be just 2 channels (L and R) inside the box.
"5.1" and similar A/V receivers do have four-plus channels of amplification for surround sound and, if they can be individually inputted (rather than used only in surround mode), make good bi-amps.
Many receivers can switch their amps between different sets of speakers that are installed in different rooms (that's called "creeping featuritis" where manufacturers endlessly add useless features to advertise despite being little demand for those features from consumers). But there still might be just 2 channels (L and R) inside the box.
"5.1" and similar A/V receivers do have four-plus channels of amplification for surround sound and, if they can be individually inputted (rather than used only in surround mode), make good bi-amps.
Quick glance shows it's a two channel amp with speaker selector switches....
meant for driving a pair of stereo speakers, one pair at a time
meant for driving a pair of stereo speakers, one pair at a time
Service manual is available here Pioneer M-73 - Manual - Stereo Power Amplifier - HiFi Engine
This shows a two channel amp. Yes you can connect two sets of speakers but they share the two amps therefore you are bi wiring not bi amping I.e. left mono amp will be connected tho speaker a and b if a+b is selected you do not have one mono amp for left a and one for left b they share one mono amp, same for right channel.
The result is you need the crossover between mid and high on the speaker side of the amp I.e. a traditional crossover and not on the input line level side.
This shows a two channel amp. Yes you can connect two sets of speakers but they share the two amps therefore you are bi wiring not bi amping I.e. left mono amp will be connected tho speaker a and b if a+b is selected you do not have one mono amp for left a and one for left b they share one mono amp, same for right channel.
The result is you need the crossover between mid and high on the speaker side of the amp I.e. a traditional crossover and not on the input line level side.
Sure, just a matter of the internal connections to the two channels. Might be convenient for you but it is just a wiring convenience.
Cutting the freq compass into two pieces by bi-amping has many important sound advantages. It also means the peak power demand is less because then peaks have less opportunity to coincide in time. So much smaller amps can be used.
I think I not understood yet, isn't showed on the picture 4 amps inside? and the 4 speakers terminals, isn't connected with one of these 4 blocks?
Looking at the circuit boards in the service manual they are not 4 amp boards on four heat sinks they are two amps that have the circuits split over two boards each. Definitely a two channel amp with two speaker connections in parallel each channel that are switchable.
Note the sticker on the rear that says using one speaker (a or b) it is ok to use 4ohm speaker but if you use a+b you are limited to 8 ohm speakers (2 x 8 ohm speakers in parallel equals a 4 ohm load on the amp).
Note the sticker on the rear that says using one speaker (a or b) it is ok to use 4ohm speaker but if you use a+b you are limited to 8 ohm speakers (2 x 8 ohm speakers in parallel equals a 4 ohm load on the amp).
Thanks for the clarification, let me see if I understood:
So if I choose to use 1 M-73 to amplify 4 speaker's drivers using the 4 speaker's terminals (A left horn + B left tweeter / A right horn + B right tweeter), and select A AND B speakers selectors to work at same time, i will be bi-wiring, that means: each amplifier's channel will be responsible for divide their power for 2 drivers right? this can be done only if the drivers don't go bellow 8ohms, correct?
So if I choose to use 1 M-73 to amplify 4 speaker's drivers using the 4 speaker's terminals (A left horn + B left tweeter / A right horn + B right tweeter), and select A AND B speakers selectors to work at same time, i will be bi-wiring, that means: each amplifier's channel will be responsible for divide their power for 2 drivers right? this can be done only if the drivers don't go bellow 8ohms, correct?
Well, yes and no.. since you’ll need a crossover, you’re really not paralleling the drivers in their usable frequency bands. So with a crossover, it’s fine to use 4 ohm drivers in your configuration as well.
If you are using it for the mid and high then these will not require too much power so you can take that into account.
Note the comment about crossover, this will have to come after the pioneer amp as you only have a single stereo input feeding into the amp providing the same signal to the two pairs of speaker.
Note the comment about crossover, this will have to come after the pioneer amp as you only have a single stereo input feeding into the amp providing the same signal to the two pairs of speaker.
Sorry I forgot to explain, the application that I described is using the speakers with passive crossovers, so considering that, my last assumption is totally correct?
With this amp, as I and others already explained, you can only use a passive crossover between the units (horn and super tweet)
well for what i understood, with passive crossover, the left and right tweeters and horns, connected to left and right A and B speakers terminals, selected on front pannel A + B to work together, each amp channel will be powering the 4 drivers at same time, it's a bi-wire application, and the amp it's not a 4 channel, it's a 2 channel.
Think I understood, thanks.
Think I understood, thanks.
There is little to no advantage in using the A connections for the tweeter and the B for the mids as all you are doing is moving the connection between them about 2m down the speaker wires, unless you want to use the A and B switch to turn off individual pairs of drivers, maybe for measurement purposes.
Your choice, use two cables and join at the amp (a+b) or one speaker cable and join at the crossover at the speaker.
Your choice, use two cables and join at the amp (a+b) or one speaker cable and join at the crossover at the speaker.
no difference if just plug the tweeters and horns cables to the same speaker terminal then?
just plug then on the same terminal on each side? both on Left A and both on Right A, and forget about to select the A + B to work simultaneously on the front panel?
just plug then on the same terminal on each side? both on Left A and both on Right A, and forget about to select the A + B to work simultaneously on the front panel?
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Well, after think about a lot this days, considering all the infos acquired, i think I still not have the knowledge to elaborate a multi amplified active system, better keep it simple first, make the Passive crossover recommended by Fostex...thanks everybody, if occurs another doubts I will put here, apreciate all the help, best regards.
MiniDSP crossover and a good AVR receiver with direct inputs to the power amp. I am using this setup in two systems .. fantastic results. Just make sure the receiver is sending equal power to all channels. Back in the day, sometime the surround channels had less power (which you could also get by with if you used those channels for the tweeters.
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