I have been using TraxMaker (part of Circuit Maker 2000) for over 20 yrs. I recently moved across to KiCAD and am getting to grips with that for all new boards moving forward
However, I still have a lot of boards on TraxMaker but have a problem that has recently emerged. Everything works ok except the DRL files are corrupted and are complete garbage. Has anyone else found this problem? I am unable to import the Gerber files into KiCAD PCB because although the tracks and board outlines are all ok, it can’t read the DRL file because it’s corrupted.
(I won’t be designing new boards on TraxMaker).
However, I still have a lot of boards on TraxMaker but have a problem that has recently emerged. Everything works ok except the DRL files are corrupted and are complete garbage. Has anyone else found this problem? I am unable to import the Gerber files into KiCAD PCB because although the tracks and board outlines are all ok, it can’t read the DRL file because it’s corrupted.
(I won’t be designing new boards on TraxMaker).
Hi,
Is this a continuation of your earlier problem where you needed to use an older MS windows os version?
I have no experience in exactly what you are doing but can offer a couple of suggestions.
I am not sure where your problem lies, is it traxmaker creating erroneous drill files or is it that kicad can’t figure them out?
Maybe it’s the Gerber file viewer issue with kicad. Try a different Gerber viewer. It could be the settings for reading in the excellon drill files like imperial vs metric, sometimes I have issues with the precision or format settings, like 2.4 or 3.4 etc
Are you able to load up any of these designs having problems to jlcpcb to see how they interpret the data?
Is this a continuation of your earlier problem where you needed to use an older MS windows os version?
I have no experience in exactly what you are doing but can offer a couple of suggestions.
I am not sure where your problem lies, is it traxmaker creating erroneous drill files or is it that kicad can’t figure them out?
Maybe it’s the Gerber file viewer issue with kicad. Try a different Gerber viewer. It could be the settings for reading in the excellon drill files like imperial vs metric, sometimes I have issues with the precision or format settings, like 2.4 or 3.4 etc
Are you able to load up any of these designs having problems to jlcpcb to see how they interpret the data?
I don't think your DRL files are corrupted.
I was using EasyPCpro for many years.
Then they came out with a new Gerber version.
The pcb houses couldn't read my files.
That's when I switched over to DipTrace.
Have you tried installing TraxMaker in an older pc that runs Windows XP ?
You should be able to check your DRL files with it.
I was using EasyPCpro for many years.
Then they came out with a new Gerber version.
The pcb houses couldn't read my files.
That's when I switched over to DipTrace.
Have you tried installing TraxMaker in an older pc that runs Windows XP ?
You should be able to check your DRL files with it.
Thanks for the replies guys.
The problem is definitely not in KiCAD because if I open the DRL files in eg Notes or Wordpad, the file is corrupted - it’s all garbage. All the other Traxmsker files are ok.
I took my old PC to the computer shop and they were able to recover the hard drive and transfer everything to an SSD.
All the programs work ok and Traxmsker is ok except generating the DRL files.
I guess I’m stuck at this point unless I can fix this. Very frustrating.
The problem is definitely not in KiCAD because if I open the DRL files in eg Notes or Wordpad, the file is corrupted - it’s all garbage. All the other Traxmsker files are ok.
I took my old PC to the computer shop and they were able to recover the hard drive and transfer everything to an SSD.
All the programs work ok and Traxmsker is ok except generating the DRL files.
I guess I’m stuck at this point unless I can fix this. Very frustrating.
Changing over to a different ecad is almost like starting over from scratch again.
I do not know the process you are following so maybe describe what you are attempting to do?
I have never heard of importing a mfr data set (gerber/excellon drill) into a ecad system and then be able to generate a netlist let alone draw the schematic from that data. gerber is just a bunch of flashes and drawing vector primatives.
Please explain.
If I was switching over to say kicad I'd get the libraires sorted out first, then enter the schematic, go to layout and then duplicate comp placement, routing, rules etc to be as close to the original. Its a lot of work, no easy way.
Good Luck Sir
I do not know the process you are following so maybe describe what you are attempting to do?
I have never heard of importing a mfr data set (gerber/excellon drill) into a ecad system and then be able to generate a netlist let alone draw the schematic from that data. gerber is just a bunch of flashes and drawing vector primatives.
Please explain.
If I was switching over to say kicad I'd get the libraires sorted out first, then enter the schematic, go to layout and then duplicate comp placement, routing, rules etc to be as close to the original. Its a lot of work, no easy way.
Good Luck Sir
FWIW I still keep an XP machine, an old Dell Optiplex 2700
Blinding fast running old software such as Corel 5 which I still use for front panels and such, Protel Autotrax and Tango, etc.
Why not upgrade everything?
I have hundreds of designs made with them still in production.
After over 14000 amps delivered I always have old customers or their pupils asking for some Classic model, etc.
Incompatible with Chinese fab houses (I guess) but don't use them anyway, always silkscreen panels and PCBs.
Chinese $5 offers disappear when I have to pay $35 minimum Courier fees plus 50% tax over that.
Think everything has a $50-60 fixed fee over actual cost.
Add to that that Fab house offers are good for small boards.
Ever try to get a quote for a long Guitar preamp board?
Say 20-24" long, size dictated by board mounted potentiometers, jacks and switches.
You will be horrified.
Also try to draw that within modern software size limits (think Eagle and such).
While old Autotrax allows 4 foot by 4 foot boards if you need them.
Blinding fast running old software such as Corel 5 which I still use for front panels and such, Protel Autotrax and Tango, etc.
Why not upgrade everything?
I have hundreds of designs made with them still in production.
After over 14000 amps delivered I always have old customers or their pupils asking for some Classic model, etc.
Incompatible with Chinese fab houses (I guess) but don't use them anyway, always silkscreen panels and PCBs.
Chinese $5 offers disappear when I have to pay $35 minimum Courier fees plus 50% tax over that.
Think everything has a $50-60 fixed fee over actual cost.
Add to that that Fab house offers are good for small boards.
Ever try to get a quote for a long Guitar preamp board?
Say 20-24" long, size dictated by board mounted potentiometers, jacks and switches.
You will be horrified.
Also try to draw that within modern software size limits (think Eagle and such).
While old Autotrax allows 4 foot by 4 foot boards if you need them.
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KiCAD Gerber reader will import Gerber files incl the DRL file. It imports my Traxmaker files ok except for the DRL files, which as I’ve noted, are getting corrupted by my PC (old and new PC). If I take an old Traxmaker zipped up file from a year back and send it to a Chinese PCB house, they can make it. The problem is projects done over the last 3 months have corrupted DRL files.
i can’t redesign 30 or 40 PCB’s on KiCAD. I can only design new boards on KiCAD.
i can’t redesign 30 or 40 PCB’s on KiCAD. I can only design new boards on KiCAD.
Need to solve that one if you wish to continue with that toolset
Use one of those designs to load into Kicad, since you know they are good.
Okay so will any other gerber viewer, you can look at fab data, it does not allow you to edit a design as in a netlist change or other type of design change
Well hopefully you do not need to do any layout changes to those 30 or 40 PCB’s and your good to go. If not back to top 🙂
Just recently Renesas purchased Altium which I find out is an Austrialian company.
Have you ditched any plans to upgrade in the Altium toolpath and hopefully preserve your IP (previous designs) or go the Kicad path?
This is not a Chinese fab house compatible issue, its a cad tool issue
Making your own pcbs is a royal PITA. Soldering is bad enough 🙂 I am fine with China pcbs, half the damn parts are made there anyways.
I agree that delivery charges are higher than the finished goods, its coming from China BTW. Your post $, taxes are your countries problem, I pay regular HST 13%, same as I would for anything else I buy. Doing small volume mfr, the China pcbs are a god send, as otherwise it would not be possible (financially or economical) to DIY and small volume mfr.
“ Use one of those designs to load into Kicad, since you know they are good.”
I already did - they work 👍
I already did - they work 👍
I'm back to this problem again and looking for any help I can get.
Here is what the .DRL file looks like when I view it with notepad
It should actually be a text file with sensible data
Here is a Hex editor view of the above file. you can see on the right hand side that it is just garbage - no ASCII data of any use in there
What I am proposing to do here is to manually edit the file to recreate the data in something like Notepad. So my question is, does anybody know the format etc of the DRL file?
A lesson to be learned from this whole affair: don't do projects on 20-year-old software that is no longer supported! (I'm on KiCAD 7 now, but redoing the board from scratch is not possible).
Any pointers appreciated.
(NB: kiCAD will import the Gerbers, but it cannot open the corrupted .DRL file so the problem cannot be solved going down that route).
Here is what the .DRL file looks like when I view it with notepad
It should actually be a text file with sensible data
Here is a Hex editor view of the above file. you can see on the right hand side that it is just garbage - no ASCII data of any use in there
What I am proposing to do here is to manually edit the file to recreate the data in something like Notepad. So my question is, does anybody know the format etc of the DRL file?
A lesson to be learned from this whole affair: don't do projects on 20-year-old software that is no longer supported! (I'm on KiCAD 7 now, but redoing the board from scratch is not possible).
Any pointers appreciated.
(NB: kiCAD will import the Gerbers, but it cannot open the corrupted .DRL file so the problem cannot be solved going down that route).
Hi
Are you not able to look at other pcb fab files that you have generated in the past that you know have accurate drill file information? I can provide examples if you wish.
If you search, There are a number of references that describe the Excellon drill file format.
I also do understand how you can say that you are unable recreate a new board from scratch using kicad or any other Ecad S/w. I know it’s a lot of work. What’s so unique about the old design?
Rick
Are you not able to look at other pcb fab files that you have generated in the past that you know have accurate drill file information? I can provide examples if you wish.
If you search, There are a number of references that describe the Excellon drill file format.
I also do understand how you can say that you are unable recreate a new board from scratch using kicad or any other Ecad S/w. I know it’s a lot of work. What’s so unique about the old design?
Rick
Rick,
the problem is the schematics have been published in audioXpress, so regenerating the board from scratch in KiCAD would involve multiple opportunities for errors to creep in so there would be discrepancies bwtween the schematics, the board and my words.
Good news (hopefully) is that PCB house found the DRL file and emailed me to say they could go ahead with manufacture.
Do you have some examples you can share? I would prefer to regenerate the .DRL file manually and then pull the whole thing into KiCAD rather than rely on the PCB house to be able to hack through the problem. Thanks
the problem is the schematics have been published in audioXpress, so regenerating the board from scratch in KiCAD would involve multiple opportunities for errors to creep in so there would be discrepancies bwtween the schematics, the board and my words.
Good news (hopefully) is that PCB house found the DRL file and emailed me to say they could go ahead with manufacture.
Do you have some examples you can share? I would prefer to regenerate the .DRL file manually and then pull the whole thing into KiCAD rather than rely on the PCB house to be able to hack through the problem. Thanks
I would have thought if you draw the schematic the same, same net names (if they where named nets) instead of default assignements.
Use the same reference designators, then the netlist should be the same.
For pcb layout, footprints, padstacks, placement, routing, layers, widths, board outline etc need to be identical, basically do it all over again. Same routing rules, grids.
I have never generated a excellon drill file manually, sounds like labourous work none the less.
Need to know the x,y location of the pad flashes, from the gerber data and what the pad stack hole size is.
Gerber data datum and excellon datum points need to match as well.
Below is an example of a small excellon drill file that I use. It's done in inches. IIrc in gerbtool I use 4.2 resolution for importing the combined NC drill file.
%
T6C0.0600F200S100
X-008250Y-005271
X-008250Y-003125
X-008250Y-000979
X008250Y-005271
X008250Y-003125
X008250Y-000979
T9C0.2756F200S100
X-010236Y001625
X010236Y001625
T4C0.0450F200S100
X-007087Y-006249
X-005512Y-006249
X-003937Y-006249
X-002362Y-006249
X-000787Y-006249
X000787Y-006249
X002362Y-006249
X003937Y-006249
X005512Y-006249
X007087Y-006249
T2C0.0350F200S100
X-008050Y001339
X-006476Y000000
X-008050Y006261
X-006000Y001266
X-006000Y003234
X-005897Y005000
X-005000Y005000
X-004102Y005000
X-004000Y000774
X-003524Y000000
X-004000Y003726
X-001876Y-002420
X-001226Y004750
X-000974Y005690
X-000898Y-001125
X-000884Y-004000
X000000Y-001125
X000898Y-001125
X000994Y005690
X001076Y-002420
X001084Y-004000
X001726Y004750
X001774Y006250
X002150Y-003226
X003774Y-004125
X002150Y-000274
X003852Y005000
X004726Y006250
X004750Y005000
X005310Y-001244
X005310Y000724
X005524Y006250
X005647Y005000
X006726Y-004125
X007100Y-000961
X007100Y003961
X008476Y006250
T7C0.0700F200S100
X-005000Y-000750
X-005000Y000550
X004750Y001750
T1C0.0300F200S100
X-005000Y-002550
X-004000Y-001550
X-003000Y-002550
T3C0.0400F200S100
X-002400Y-000361
X-002400Y004561
X003750Y-001711
X003750Y003211
T8C0.2362F200S100
X000000Y003245
T5C0.0550F200S100
X-009750Y003875
X-009750Y004875
X-009750Y005875
X009750Y003875
X009750Y004875
X009750Y005875
M30
Use the same reference designators, then the netlist should be the same.
For pcb layout, footprints, padstacks, placement, routing, layers, widths, board outline etc need to be identical, basically do it all over again. Same routing rules, grids.
I have never generated a excellon drill file manually, sounds like labourous work none the less.
Need to know the x,y location of the pad flashes, from the gerber data and what the pad stack hole size is.
Gerber data datum and excellon datum points need to match as well.
Below is an example of a small excellon drill file that I use. It's done in inches. IIrc in gerbtool I use 4.2 resolution for importing the combined NC drill file.
%
T6C0.0600F200S100
X-008250Y-005271
X-008250Y-003125
X-008250Y-000979
X008250Y-005271
X008250Y-003125
X008250Y-000979
T9C0.2756F200S100
X-010236Y001625
X010236Y001625
T4C0.0450F200S100
X-007087Y-006249
X-005512Y-006249
X-003937Y-006249
X-002362Y-006249
X-000787Y-006249
X000787Y-006249
X002362Y-006249
X003937Y-006249
X005512Y-006249
X007087Y-006249
T2C0.0350F200S100
X-008050Y001339
X-006476Y000000
X-008050Y006261
X-006000Y001266
X-006000Y003234
X-005897Y005000
X-005000Y005000
X-004102Y005000
X-004000Y000774
X-003524Y000000
X-004000Y003726
X-001876Y-002420
X-001226Y004750
X-000974Y005690
X-000898Y-001125
X-000884Y-004000
X000000Y-001125
X000898Y-001125
X000994Y005690
X001076Y-002420
X001084Y-004000
X001726Y004750
X001774Y006250
X002150Y-003226
X003774Y-004125
X002150Y-000274
X003852Y005000
X004726Y006250
X004750Y005000
X005310Y-001244
X005310Y000724
X005524Y006250
X005647Y005000
X006726Y-004125
X007100Y-000961
X007100Y003961
X008476Y006250
T7C0.0700F200S100
X-005000Y-000750
X-005000Y000550
X004750Y001750
T1C0.0300F200S100
X-005000Y-002550
X-004000Y-001550
X-003000Y-002550
T3C0.0400F200S100
X-002400Y-000361
X-002400Y004561
X003750Y-001711
X003750Y003211
T8C0.2362F200S100
X000000Y003245
T5C0.0550F200S100
X-009750Y003875
X-009750Y004875
X-009750Y005875
X009750Y003875
X009750Y004875
X009750Y005875
M30
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🤦♂️ doing it manually looks like a monster job.
I wonder if I can import the net list to cross checking with a new schematic.
I wonder if I can import the net list to cross checking with a new schematic.
The am not sure since you usually export a netlist from a schematic. The netlist can be in ASCII.
Even Comparing ASCII netlists is fun, it helps/depends if they are in the same format.
Drawing a schematic from a ASCII netlist would be fun.
Does circuit maker export an ASCII netlists?
Does kicad support reading a circuit maker netlist?
Even Comparing ASCII netlists is fun, it helps/depends if they are in the same format.
Drawing a schematic from a ASCII netlist would be fun.
Does circuit maker export an ASCII netlists?
Does kicad support reading a circuit maker netlist?