i don't think break-in period was under question in the first post, was it?
is there a difference if a driver receives enable treatment after break-in or when it's new?
is there a difference if a driver receives enable treatment after break-in or when it's new?
I like the FE127e very much, but I find the FF85k a notch up as far as the mids go, and significantly better in the highs. Of course the FF85k is decidedly lacking in the bass department--which is why I built a pair of MJK's passive OB's. The FF85k with the bass support of an Alpha 15 is simply stunning.
I have the FE127e in Fonkens (prime, with a BSC of 1 mH and 5 ohms) and find the highs good, the mids smooth & sweet, and the bass extension surprisingly deep. The FF85k in a micro-Fonken (no BSC) has more HF extension with better dispersion; mids are smooth and seem to me just a bit more detailed than the 127's; bass drops off below 100 Hz.
I very much enjoy both drivers and feel they are well worth what they cost. (On the other hand, there are folks who hate the sound of Fostex.)
Cheers, Jim
I don't know. I put at least 100 hrs (usually 2-3x that) before i treat them (mostly to ensure no dud's that should be sent back before i void the warranty).
dave
I pretty much agree with Jim's assessment. There is something special about the FF85, its downsides being efficiency & dynamics compared to a larger driver.
dave
I wonder how well a FF85 would drop in as a substitute for an FE83E or FE87E. The Vas is similar, but the Qts is much less (nearly half). Recipe for disaster, or interesting experiment?
Jim or Planet10,
The FF125K is made from the same material as FF85K(not so sure about the internal wiring and magnet), and it has higher spl= 92dB, do you think both speakers will sound similar? I am more concern about the mids and highs, I can augment it with a woofer.
The FF125K is made from the same material as FF85K(not so sure about the internal wiring and magnet), and it has higher spl= 92dB, do you think both speakers will sound similar? I am more concern about the mids and highs, I can augment it with a woofer.
No. I 1st chose FF85 because i could fit it into a 2 litre box where FE83, FE87 needed 4.5 litre -- i'd already fit an FE127 into that size box.
dave
I got FF85, FF125, FF165. The FF85, althou using the same kenaf* paper cone. is really considerably different from the other 2 drivers. The magnet proportion is larger, it has the UDR surround from the sigma series, and the dustcap is directly affixed to the end of the voice coil. The larger drivers, IMO, althou good, don't compare.
dave
(BTW, i have a pair of treated FF125 i'd love to pass on to someone cheap)
of course the logical endpoint of "break-in" as a beleivable concept is "wear-out" - the point at which the speaker (or cable or stylus etc etc) begins to degrade and it distorts the sonic reference given to it.
How odd that manufacturers and sellers tout "break -in" but neglect "wear-out".
How odd that those who can don't identify "wear-out" as easily as they identify "break-in".
This is not to say I'm un unbeliever of break-in in speakers - its entirely logical and with the right equipment the physical changes that are the result can be measured and corelated with what you hear.
But the ONLY logical reason that we can use to explain an inability to hear "wear -out" is.... our ear has been trained to accept what we hear from our speakers...
How odd that manufacturers and sellers tout "break -in" but neglect "wear-out".
How odd that those who can don't identify "wear-out" as easily as they identify "break-in".
This is not to say I'm un unbeliever of break-in in speakers - its entirely logical and with the right equipment the physical changes that are the result can be measured and corelated with what you hear.
But the ONLY logical reason that we can use to explain an inability to hear "wear -out" is.... our ear has been trained to accept what we hear from our speakers...
You can definitly hear wear-out ... but from my experience with vinatge drivers it can be WAY down the road. Lots of 40 year old drivers that still sound just fine (and more than a few suffering from stiff surround syndrome, weakened magnets, surrounds with radial tears...)
dave
dave
FWIW, applying good old Newtonian physics, below are the potential maximum acceleration factors of the Fostex FF85K & FF125K drivers in ms^2.A^1. Theoretically, the VC & cone of the 125 can accelerate at only about 78% at the rate that of the little 85.
FF85K = 2405.556
FF125K = 1872.647
(Edit: just to stress I am not saying this is anything to do with transient response; all wide band drivers have good transient response or they wouldn't be wide-band drivers. What it does tend to give is an indication as to the resolving power / detail of a drive-unit, all other things being ~equal. Not to be taken too seriously, esp. when not comparing like against like, but it's still useful if used sensibly.)
FF85K = 2405.556
FF125K = 1872.647
(Edit: just to stress I am not saying this is anything to do with transient response; all wide band drivers have good transient response or they wouldn't be wide-band drivers. What it does tend to give is an indication as to the resolving power / detail of a drive-unit, all other things being ~equal. Not to be taken too seriously, esp. when not comparing like against like, but it's still useful if used sensibly.)
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I guess an example of not noticing wear out would be like your fluorescent light bulbs getting dimmer and dimmer. You don't notice it until they go completely out and replace them with new brighter bulbs.
As Planet 10 says it takes a long time for vintage speakers to wearout. I run across a lot of old speakers that have been partially eaten by insects.
As Planet 10 says it takes a long time for vintage speakers to wearout. I run across a lot of old speakers that have been partially eaten by insects.
With vintage speakers there is also the fact, that the ones that have completely worn out have already found their way to the tip.
dave
dave
>>> also having a system that is wonderful on certain kinds of music, you'll tend to hear to those genres more and more, thinking the system is wonderfull more and more...
Interesting comment and observation. I would have to agree. I also think finding good qualities in inexpensive drivers is always possible making them enjoyable.
Godzilla
Interesting comment and observation. I would have to agree. I also think finding good qualities in inexpensive drivers is always possible making them enjoyable.
Godzilla
Vintage drivers. I have just put 2 Goodmans Axiom 300s in cabinets and I like the sound. The Alnico magnets must have lost a bit but the sensitivity is right up there. I guess I don't have to worry about breakin with these babies.
Anyone else had any experience with this driver? Even though it has faults it does some things I really like esp on female vocals, maybe it is the Alnico thing, it doesn't go to pieces on loud sustained notes.
Anyone else had any experience with this driver? Even though it has faults it does some things I really like esp on female vocals, maybe it is the Alnico thing, it doesn't go to pieces on loud sustained notes.
sure.
yet -
as one learns to listen, one hears more .
might start with cheep speakers ...
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