total diy noob, need to understand how to match speakers.

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iggy18

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Joined 2012
#1
I just recently built a cooler radio with help from the dudes at motorboatyourself.com - Home and it got me interested in building my own stereos. I understand that the idea of putting speakers in a cooler might make you guys here at DIY want to vomit, but that build led me here. so it can't be all bad, can it?

I posted this topic in the speaker section because my current problem is how to choose speakers that will sound good together.

with my cooler build my sub was outperformed by the 6.5 inch coaxial I bought. even though the sub had the recommended airspace.

I want to do another build, but in a wooden box. eventually, I would like to build two large loudspeakers for my old luxman turntable and R-1050 reciver... how do I go about choosing speakers that work well with each other and the amp I want to use. like choosing a tweeter that wont be louder than my sub. do I try to choose speakers that have the same, or close to the same RMS ratings? does a sub that has an rms rating of 70 watts at 8 ohms work better with a 50 watt amp than a sub rated for 150 watts at 8 ohms?

can you recommend any sites or books for complete diy noobs on the subject of loudspeaker building. like something i would be able to read and by the end have at most a BASIC foundation of knowledge to build upon.
 
#2
Hi,

All of the sites that make out speaker design is simple are wrong.

If you want decent sized speakers you won't go too far wrong with :

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


or : http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

ZDT3.5-system2.jpg


http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=zdt35

rgds, sreten.

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy (see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
The Speaker Building Bible
Zaph|Audio
Zaph|Audio - ZA5 Speaker Designs with ZA14W08 woofer and Vifa DQ25SC16-04 tweeter
http://audio.claub.net/Simple Loudspeaker Design ver2.pdf
FRD Consortium tools guide
Designing Crossovers with Software Only
RJB Audio Projects
Jay's DIY Loudspeaker Projects
Speaker Design Works
HTGuide Forum - A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs.
A Speaker project
DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Humble Homemade Hifi
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
The Frugal-Horns Site -- High Performance, Low Cost DIY Horn Designs
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Music and Design

Great free SPICE Emulator : SPICE-Based Analog Simulation Program - TINA-TI - TI Software Folder
 
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#3
Hi iggy,

Picking drivers that can work together is not actually terribly difficult if you know the goals of the system, the hard part is getting them to work together, in the real world, on a baffle, in a box, that's in a room. Most serious DIYers will make heavy use of simulation software for the box, baffle, drive size/positions, listening position, room reflections, crossover etc.

As you read through the links that sreten has provided, you will undoubtedly start picking up some of the important considerations for driver selection.

Regards,
Eric
 
#5
iggy18 said:
wow, thanks sreten. you really have left me a lot of information. thank you for taking the time to provide me with all these links.
Click to expand...

Think he has them ready in advance for all noobies looking to design and build there own speakers.
He always recomends the Tarkus also. Probably a good speaker, never heard it.

I think troels designs are often posted also. so i may as well save some one else the time.... DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen

It seems alot of people looking to design and build there own speakers get advised against it. I understand it is complex, and the final result may not be as good as some of the tried and tested designs... However you will never know, because you wont have them as a comparitive sitting next to yours. Personaly i think the design yur own route is better, as you learn alot more that way. But you will still learn alot from a tried/tested design.

To build your own, first learn the basics of sound and the drivers themselfs.
Make sure the drivers are the right size for there intended frequency ranges....
And learn the basics of how crossovers work.

Its up to you how you design them there are no rules set in stone, only fundemental principles set in wet cement. So you can use whichever approch you like.
 
#6
WaVeInFoRm said:
He always recomends the Tarkus also. Probably a good speaker, never heard it.
Click to expand...

I've built 3 of Paul's designs so far, the ZX Spectrum, the Overnight Sensation and the Classix II, all of which sound and behave pretty much exactly as he says they do in his descriptions. I have no doubt that the Tarkus performs pretty much spot on with how he describes it:

"The Tarkus were designed to play loud, play clean, and to bring rock recordings to life.

Rant on: Unlike classical and acoustic music, Rock recordings are not meant to emulate a concert hall. With rock, everything is close-mic'ed, sent through effects, and mixed at a console. It's a studio sound, and it is what rock sounds like, and there should be no shame in that. Furthermore, the production of rock music is part of the composition itself. Consider for example the work of: George Martin (The Beatles), Brian Wilson (Beach Boys), Alan Parsons (Pink Floyd), Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails), Phil Spector, Ted Templeman (Van Halen), Terry Date (Pantera, Soundgarden), Mike Stone (Queen), Bob Rock (Metallica), David Bottrill (Tool, King Crimson), Rick Rubin, Andy Wallace (Nirvana, Jeff Buckley, Rage Against the Machine).... The list practically never ends.

And it's not just rock music that is so heavily influenced by its production. Other genres such as Country, Pop, R&B, and Hip Hop also rely on recording production as an integral part their sound, and the composition of the songs themselves. In some ways, it boggles my mind that more speakers aren't designed with this in mind. Rant off.

The Tarkus are indeed capable of producing the "pant-leg-shaking sensation" when cranked up past 100 dB. However, at more conservative listening levels, say 80-90 dB, I have found myself very surprised to hear depth and resolve in rock recordings I never would have imagined were there. Even at "quaint" levels of 70-80 dB, the Tarkus are still a lot of fun to listen to, and their ability to play low bass confidently still comes through. In fact, I think the thing I enjoyed the most from this design was the ability it gave me to differentiate the kick drum from the electric bass, and hear them separately--not sort of "mashed together" as is the norm on smaller speakers. (To explain further: kick drum is typically identified in a mix by the attack around 2-4 KHz. This way, you can hear it on any old speaker. What you typically do not hear on smaller speakers is the actual resonance of the kick drum, which is very low, anywhere from 100 Hz down to below 20 Hz, depending on the size of the drum and its tuning. You can rarely pick this out on a normal speaker because it gets mixed up with the electric bass (or is removed altogether by the mix engineer). The larger woofers in this design, however, let the two coexist, which I really enjoyed, being a drummer and all)

So enough talk. Guys have been clamoring for something bold and loud, and this is my contribution. Forget the Telarc, Mapleshade, and Sheffield Labs CDs--these speakers are for the rest of your collection! (You know, the stuff you'd rather be listening to.)"
 
#7
yeah, i think I'm going to build the tarkus. a few people have recommended it already. seems like a good first build.

and crossovers seem like tricky business. especially if you do them yourself. I've already started reading about them. i'll have to get some of this software i keep seeing that helps people fine tune speakers.
 
#10
Iggy.....Hi there....Looks like someone here with the Tarkus has done your "homework" for you....That said, how are your woodworking skills?? The enclosure is an advanced design & can get beginners frustrated....
We here, could reconfigure several enclosures for your approval ....So as not to be "just another" Tarkus.

_____________________________________________________Rick..........
 
#11
I built my 2 prototype HT speakers in 5" cardboard mailing tubes and they sounded good enough to proceed to the final version. They take 9 - 3 1/2 inch Aura NS3's or Parts Express ND90's each and anybody who is willing to pay for shipping can have them for free (they're each 5' tall, but UPS can probably do it for relatively a reasonable rate) since each are less than a foot wide.

Anybody who wants them, let me know. I sort of hate to throw them in my burn pit.
 
#12
First speakers. OK. Do you think you have the bug, or would you just like to build a knows successful set. With an old Luxman, you can use very good speakers.

Are you in a house or apartment? It matters. In an apartment, we are not talking subs. Do you intend to listen at very high level, or are these for more background? Where I am going is if what you need is a nice 6" two way, a full blown floor stander good for music at realistic levels, or want movie special effects level bass? Then their is cost. You can build some decent and respected kits for a few hundred, or if you wanted to build Orions, about $14 grand.

Are their speakers in the store you admire? Can you solder? Can you build cabinets? Are you sane? If you are, just go buy some because DIY is not for you!

As was mentioned, slapping together some drivers is easy. Building a successful set takes a lot more work. DESIGNING a successful set is a life's ambition. I am getting pretty good if I say so myself, after 35 years.
 
#13
thoriated said:
I built my 2 prototype HT speakers in 5" cardboard mailing tubes and they sounded good enough to proceed to the final version. They take 9 - 3 1/2 inch Aura NS3's or Parts Express ND90's each and anybody who is willing to pay for shipping can have them for free (they're each 5' tall, but UPS can probably do it for relatively a reasonable rate) since each are less than a foot wide.

Anybody who wants them, let me know. I sort of hate to throw them in my burn pit.
Click to expand...

Hi, What does this have to do with this thread ? In any sense ? rgds, sreten.
 
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#14
tvrgeek said:
Are you in a house or apartment? It matters. In an apartment, we are not talking subs. Do you intend to listen at very high level, or are these for more background? Where I am going is if what you need is a nice 6" two way, a full blown floor stander good for music at realistic levels, or want movie special effects level bass?
Click to expand...

I'm a college student living in a house with two other musicians. we like it loud and we like to hear little things you only pick up on vinyl. right now I have some utah floor speakers I got from a thrift store for 5 bucks. they sound really good considering I only paid 5 bucks. after I started replacing parts on my turntable I decided I wanted to build some better speakers. I would be using these speakers as the sound source for my projector though. a balance between music and movie would be nice.

if I can build these turks and make them sound nice I would like to design a steampunk stereo (you know, since i'm dreaming) i could use those hivi speakers, copper accents, plates, and tubes, complete with a tube amp where the tubes stick out of the top of an old wooden box accented with more copper and some well placed gears. but for now, the turks sound good.
 
#16
Iggy,

I started my first build September 2011 and was done around February 2012. I worked on and off on the speakers and once you get the bug to work on them you will be waking up at 8am Saturday morning to work on them! hehe (i never wake up that early lol)

I built Paul Carmody's ZX Spectrum speakers and they sound..... AMAZING!!!!! You will NOT be able to afford better sounding speakers in the $300-500 range! hehe

my build thread is here

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/201994-paul-carmondis-zx-spectrum-first-build-pics-5.html


Word of advice is that whatever your budget it.... prepare to spend more hehehe

I ended up buying $400-600 worth of tools and believe me... the right tools make all the difference! I own a house too so I figures that I will own these tools for life and they are good investment.

I ended up buying:
circular saw
router
router table
router bits
saw blade
power drill


take a look at the many speaker building threads here or mine to see how people have done it before and get a good idea. I spent hours and days reading and picking components or speakers. I decided to do a proven build at first and I have LEARNED A LOT! I could have saved myself 2/3 of my build time if I knew what i know now :/

Right now I have taken the drivers off of my speakers and am prepping them for painting and final finish 🙂 and i cant wait for my next project.
 
#17
iggy18 said:
I've got free woodworking experience via 4 (ground breaking to complete) habitat for humanity houses and I've done set design for community theater.

would you say that's enough? or should i choose an easier enclosure?
Click to expand...

Yes, it sounds like you know your way around the sawdust pile...What I was trying to get across was....Make it your own. The Tarkus seems to be a well thought out build....but you can change things for the better, according to you own tastes.
The Tarkus builder has some apparent Math work done...note the Bass driver is angled up slightly, now this could have been done scientifically for two possible reasons (That I'm aware of) 1) The driver is angled up so the listener is more "In line" with the driver...It's pointing AT you...this assumes you will be far enough away as to be "in line". 2) The angled front baffle was created for an internal volume of mathmatically "random" proportions.
If this baffle was created for esthetics alone....you can "do as you please" in this regard.
No doubt the spacing between the three drivers has been correctly calculated & should not change. Now...the driver arrangement along the vertical axis was most likely a rule of thumb decision. There is, a mathmatical modeling of "where to put the driver" on a panel....the location within, say a square (Not the best) front baffle...lots of math here!
These calculations can get intense sometimes.
The two seperate enclosures (Bass & Mid/tweet) could have been mathmatically derived...one would have to ask the builder......I think is was again an esthetic decision.
There are two enclosure dimensions that are/were used. The "Golden ratio" & the "Acoustic ratio"...The acoustic ratio is a standard mathmatically derived dimension.
All in all, make it your own....perhaps you can come up with something more esthetically pleasing, without "degrading" the sound quality.

__________________________________________________Rick.........
 
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