oh no that discussion again ! Yes reccordings are different, sometimes ears too.
By tweaking with excellent acoustical reccordings of classical and jazz music and in your whole setup. It's not about to get a bad reccording good. Intigibility of voices and tonal balance are good indicators as well.
By tweaking with excellent acoustical reccordings of classical and jazz music and in your whole setup. It's not about to get a bad reccording good. Intigibility of voices and tonal balance are good indicators as well.
HI.
More worms out of the can....
Cambridge Audio uses bipolars capacitprs in theirs Dacs equipped with Wolfson WM8740 to baypass VMID rails ( 1/2 V+ analog psu ) in a location with no reverse voltage to speak about...
Is no the same use that Eldam is asking about, but are bipolars caps with only a positive voltage on and CA folks are known for nice sounding and better lab tested results equipements....
Dont ask me because II dont know why....
More worms out of the can....
Cambridge Audio uses bipolars capacitprs in theirs Dacs equipped with Wolfson WM8740 to baypass VMID rails ( 1/2 V+ analog psu ) in a location with no reverse voltage to speak about...
Is no the same use that Eldam is asking about, but are bipolars caps with only a positive voltage on and CA folks are known for nice sounding and better lab tested results equipements....
Dont ask me because II dont know why....
I've noticed that the measured dissipation factor tends to be quite low with bipolars, but given the rest of the disadvantages and the fact that you can buy low loss standard caps, there's just no reason to use them for PS duty.
Other than the ones specified for loudspeaker crossover duty, I've seen fine print (the manufacturers catalog or app notes) that suggests bipolar caps aren't for AC duty at all, but are for situations where the final polarity isn't known for some reason, or the OEM wants to avoid any possible chance of installation error.
As for sound (or lack thereof) I always have to ask, "what circuit?" and "what location in said circuit?". There are so many variations it's hard to believe any rule of thumb applies, assuming the differences aren't attributable to other biases.
The ones that exhibit that attribute tend to be huge, considering their CV product: here are three examples, the small black ones are ordinary 47µ/25V polarized, shown as a reference.
The huge mauve one is quite good (but doesn't even come close to a metallized paper), the long, natural aluminum one is intermediate and the (relatively) small blue one is only marginally better than the polarized. Its only advantage is its polarity-indifference.
These are rather old examples, modern types probably do somewhat better, but given the advances also seen in the film-cap tech, they are probably the best choice in most circumstances (even the lowly PET's)
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Are you implying that there is something wrong with trekkies? I was simply suggesting that one can sometimes find oneself in a different environment from what one thought one was in. So in an audio forum one might imagine that circuit discussion was based around circuit theory, but it seems that in some threads this is not true as posts which are based on circuit theory are dismissed as trolling.
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how a bipolar electrolytic can be superior to an ordinary electrolytic as a PSU reservoir cap in an otherwise well-designed system.
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me how a bipolar electrolytic can be superior to an ordinary electrolytic as a PSU reservoir cap in an otherwise well-designed system.
As I'm the origin of the asking, some thoughts :
First, sorry as it is a cap speaker thread, so asking was off topic
I don't think bipolar is superior after a rectifier, I just asked if there was no electrical issues to use a bipolar at that position. Why ? Because there is not two caps which gives the same sound in a circuit ! It's not about poorely designed circuit : for instance I tried maybe more than 100 different 1500/16V main power supply caps on a Pedja Rogic DAC and I don't think the guy is bad at designing, no (try his stuffs, Worth it !)? Result : Any sounds the same ? Even the same model in a brand with a different size factor. So it's not antimatter, it's a fact ! Difference can be subtle or huge !
So for me my asking was just to add one more cap to my tool box as testing with caps is just for compensation between the different devices association about the whole result which is the sound your hifi outputs at the end ! (but sometimes in some commercial designs, some choosed caps should be avoided as sounding bad in all the hifi and not because the circuit design is bad !)
It's not a cosmic secret than if you take standalone devices perfectly designed with sota measurements and if you putt them together to make your whole system : the good sound is not always guaranted : far from it in fact ! tweaking with caps can help sometimes and helps so good than it can save the system to be not acurate. It's all about compensation as a cap has no sound on its own of course.
So it's not about to be superior or inferior as far as no electrical issues (so my asking before) : it's just about to give me an other possibility to try if the whole system needs this compensation for a better sound.
It's all about the sound as logic ask to use Long Life with high temperature rate (105°C, 125°C) for best electrical aging ! But here we are the guys who like to varnish their sota constructed cellos with home made laquering to allow them to sound better in our own particular adition of devices !
But for sure in the scalling : first importance is the design, tweakings are the last process to improve the whole.
Btw to come back to the speaker cap thread, I find difference are huger in the devices (amps, DACs) than the speakers : for me, the speaker caps tweaking should come at the end ! There is more benefits (and it's cheaper) to improve the stuffs before the speakers : so much good speaker sounding bad because their bad sources (turnable or dac... or not enough good active filter !)
First, sorry as it is a cap speaker thread, so asking was off topic
I don't think bipolar is superior after a rectifier, I just asked if there was no electrical issues to use a bipolar at that position. Why ? Because there is not two caps which gives the same sound in a circuit ! It's not about poorely designed circuit : for instance I tried maybe more than 100 different 1500/16V main power supply caps on a Pedja Rogic DAC and I don't think the guy is bad at designing, no (try his stuffs, Worth it !)? Result : Any sounds the same ? Even the same model in a brand with a different size factor. So it's not antimatter, it's a fact ! Difference can be subtle or huge !
So for me my asking was just to add one more cap to my tool box as testing with caps is just for compensation between the different devices association about the whole result which is the sound your hifi outputs at the end ! (but sometimes in some commercial designs, some choosed caps should be avoided as sounding bad in all the hifi and not because the circuit design is bad !)
It's not a cosmic secret than if you take standalone devices perfectly designed with sota measurements and if you putt them together to make your whole system : the good sound is not always guaranted : far from it in fact ! tweaking with caps can help sometimes and helps so good than it can save the system to be not acurate. It's all about compensation as a cap has no sound on its own of course.
So it's not about to be superior or inferior as far as no electrical issues (so my asking before) : it's just about to give me an other possibility to try if the whole system needs this compensation for a better sound.
It's all about the sound as logic ask to use Long Life with high temperature rate (105°C, 125°C) for best electrical aging ! But here we are the guys who like to varnish their sota constructed cellos with home made laquering to allow them to sound better in our own particular adition of devices !
But for sure in the scalling : first importance is the design, tweakings are the last process to improve the whole.
Btw to come back to the speaker cap thread, I find difference are huger in the devices (amps, DACs) than the speakers : for me, the speaker caps tweaking should come at the end ! There is more benefits (and it's cheaper) to improve the stuffs before the speakers : so much good speaker sounding bad because their bad sources (turnable or dac... or not enough good active filter !)
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Indeed and for physical reasons there are not two caps which give the same sound result ! That you don't master, understand, or can measure yourself why doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Facts are facts : if there is a sound difference between two caps : Something happens. It's not because no-one is able to write a rule then verify by measurement it works all the time than Nothing happens. Well the measurement is local, but the sound changed through all the others stuffs after a cap changes : so there are corelations and if all could be measured all the hifi stuffs will sound good as there are more engineers on Earth than stuffs ! (and they learn the same all other the world, even in Tahiti !)
From my expériences : i can change more the sounding result with two different caps in a dac or an amp than between two caps in a speaker ! If your system is not right before your speaker, whatever you say and the many caps tried in the speaker : all the speaker caps tried(of course if the filter parameters are good) will not fix that ! So I disagree and think we talk of two different things !
You think there are electrical rules and if respected any technician can make a correct job: but tons of standardized devices sound bad : and the enfineer did their job, so what happened ? You are the only one with correct ears or do you check just your devices with your eyes ; noise measurement, etc ?!
For me it's work : as far there is no danger for the devices and the health of the people (I think our mental one is already wasted, yours as mine
): what uou measure is not precise enough in relation to the sound quality result ! And for caps : ESL,ESR, voltage, capacitance are important but not sufisant to explain the sound difference between two very close caps. There are more factors not so mastered by many engineers (the tons of standardised hifi craps on the markett, even CE marked !)
From my expériences : i can change more the sounding result with two different caps in a dac or an amp than between two caps in a speaker ! If your system is not right before your speaker, whatever you say and the many caps tried in the speaker : all the speaker caps tried(of course if the filter parameters are good) will not fix that ! So I disagree and think we talk of two different things !
You think there are electrical rules and if respected any technician can make a correct job: but tons of standardized devices sound bad : and the enfineer did their job, so what happened ? You are the only one with correct ears or do you check just your devices with your eyes ; noise measurement, etc ?!
For me it's work : as far there is no danger for the devices and the health of the people (I think our mental one is already wasted, yours as mine
): what uou measure is not precise enough in relation to the sound quality result ! And for caps : ESL,ESR, voltage, capacitance are important but not sufisant to explain the sound difference between two very close caps. There are more factors not so mastered by many engineers (the tons of standardised hifi craps on the markett, even CE marked !)
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Can't agree with you more Eldam One cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear So what's the point of tweaking the caps in the crossover if the root of the system does not sound good in the first place. I agree too that there's many ways to skin a cat but in our case the speaker crossover just isn't the place to start with
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