I think his subjective listening tests should be tempered with actual repeatable measurements, like spectral analysis, swept measurements, impedance sweeps (up above hearing range) phase plots. ESR, Impulse response, etc.
If there is an audible difference, some of these technical measurements will expose the difference in electrical properties.
Antone-
If there is an audible difference, some of these technical measurements will expose the difference in electrical properties.
Antone-
My M cap experience is consistent with Tony's.
Really would be interested in seeing Vcap evaluated along with all thos other caps.
Really would be interested in seeing Vcap evaluated along with all thos other caps.
Here is the latest:
Humble Homemade Hifi
Note that the Amp Ohm poly in oil is something of a high performance value leader (..though still not in-expensive). US supplier prices of the poly in oil:
http://thetubestore.com/ampohmmylar.html
Tony's findings with the Amp Ohm models correlate welll with the "Orgy of Capacitors" thread, and specifically the poly in oil:
Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 16 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
Humble Homemade Hifi
Note that the Amp Ohm poly in oil is something of a high performance value leader (..though still not in-expensive). US supplier prices of the poly in oil:
http://thetubestore.com/ampohmmylar.html
Tony's findings with the Amp Ohm models correlate welll with the "Orgy of Capacitors" thread, and specifically the poly in oil:
Orgy of Capacitors: The Cap Thread - Page 16 - Head-Fi: Covering Headphones, Earphones and Portable Audio
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Using a cap in the passive XO is not the same thing as using in the singal path of an electronic device.
So, those tests while useful, must be taken with a grain of salt.
Tony uses them in a XO. (..larger values.)
Jon uses them in electronic devices. (smaller values.)
So you do have variety here (..between the two).
**Despite this however, their responses are generally quite similar.**
One of the caps that seemingly does NOT match up is the ubiquitous "Audio Cap Theta". However in that instance they weren't using the same capacitor. Jon (because of his use of a low value cap) - was using a 600V cap. Tony on the other hand needed a larger value and as a result was using a 200V cap.
Even the Tempo Electric test, for Loudspeaker use, matches up fairly well.
The Great Capacitor Shoot-Out
Unfortunately it also appears to be rather limited test group for the Loudspeaker section.
An insight into Tony Gee's ratings
I created a 6 pg. PDF document that is an attempt by me to add a new insight to to ongoing debate on capacitor performance as well as provide a large number of links and references that hopefully pull together much of the scattered information that already exists on the WWW regarding the subject material. Some of the links point back to a thread or two that originated here.
I'm not an industry insider and thus what I've written represents my personal views as an outsider.
I apologize that all the hyperlinks don't work. The ones with spelled out URL's do.
The file is too large to attach to this thread, so PM me and I'll send it to you.
I created a 6 pg. PDF document that is an attempt by me to add a new insight to to ongoing debate on capacitor performance as well as provide a large number of links and references that hopefully pull together much of the scattered information that already exists on the WWW regarding the subject material. Some of the links point back to a thread or two that originated here.
I'm not an industry insider and thus what I've written represents my personal views as an outsider.
I apologize that all the hyperlinks don't work. The ones with spelled out URL's do.
The file is too large to attach to this thread, so PM me and I'll send it to you.
Still no Dayton Foil?
Wow! still no Dayton Foil cap listed even though he did a loudspeaker design for them that is published in their project show case.
Parts-Express.com😀ayton DFFC-0.47 0.47uF 400V By-Pass Capacitor | polypropylene capacitor polypropylene PAC PA low pass foil film and foil dayton capacitor caps cap ac 47uf .47uf
Wow! still no Dayton Foil cap listed even though he did a loudspeaker design for them that is published in their project show case.
Parts-Express.com😀ayton DFFC-0.47 0.47uF 400V By-Pass Capacitor | polypropylene capacitor polypropylene PAC PA low pass foil film and foil dayton capacitor caps cap ac 47uf .47uf
Better yet, here's a link to a thread at another site where you can download the document.
Capacitor voltage rating vs performance - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
Capacitor voltage rating vs performance - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
Why?
Why? You don't like the Dayton Foil for signal coupling? I know he is testing mainly as crossover sized caps but he also has some smaller values listed which the rest of us look at for electronics mods.
Not expensive enough? Not pretty enough?
When bias overloaded imagination is solely used to "rate" items, you expect logic and reason to intrude?
Why?
They're ok, better than most electrolytic caps for coupling.
In a loudspeaker, I would rate them about the same as a basic Mundorf M-Cap.
I just bought some of those to try in my speaker project on my tweeters. I have been using Mundorf Supreme to good effect.
The Amp Ohms pretty well sucked in this instance. Not saying that they are bad caps, but the Mundorfs just seem to match better.
At least some measurements:
Index of /diy/UP/Youpi/PCBs/Capas
.... but I think there are better ways of spending money if the goal is better sound .... e.g. drivers and room acoustics
Index of /diy/UP/Youpi/PCBs/Capas
.... but I think there are better ways of spending money if the goal is better sound .... e.g. drivers and room acoustics
That link has been around for some time. IIRC, the bottom line of Bateman's work at the time was film caps have less distortion than NPE's. In any case, I completely concur with your latter statement on funds allocation. 🙂
Thus, you seem to agree with most of Tony Gee's ratings in spite of his wholly subjective assessment methodology.
Capacitor voltage rating vs performance - The Kitchen - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
Capacitor voltage rating vs performance - The Kitchen - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
"Subjective" is fine. "Uncontrolled" (which is the case for these "tests") isn't. Doubly so when the person offering these gems of wisdom is also selling the stuff he's reviewing.
I don't get how anyone can take this seriously.
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