Hi all.
Recently I purchased a second hand professional hard disk recorder, and AKAI DR4D.
I am delighted with the results, and the ability to record 20+ hours on the external hard drives.
However, I have noticed that on playback, there is a sight “hole” in the upper midrange.
Nothing to get to worried over, but I know that it is not quite right.
Anyway, I good friend of mine, who is in the pro music / mastering business, gave me a short loan of an Avalon parametric equalizer, and this worked wonders.
Unfortunately this unit costs over $12,000, and is well outside my price range.
My question is:
Is there a more economical alternative, which will provide me with good sonic results?
I ask this because I know very little about equalizers, and those audio retailers that I have spoken to almost consider the subject taboo.
Its interesting that you don’t get the same response from the pro recording / instrument dealers.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Regards
George.
Recently I purchased a second hand professional hard disk recorder, and AKAI DR4D.
I am delighted with the results, and the ability to record 20+ hours on the external hard drives.
However, I have noticed that on playback, there is a sight “hole” in the upper midrange.
Nothing to get to worried over, but I know that it is not quite right.
Anyway, I good friend of mine, who is in the pro music / mastering business, gave me a short loan of an Avalon parametric equalizer, and this worked wonders.
Unfortunately this unit costs over $12,000, and is well outside my price range.
My question is:
Is there a more economical alternative, which will provide me with good sonic results?
I ask this because I know very little about equalizers, and those audio retailers that I have spoken to almost consider the subject taboo.
Its interesting that you don’t get the same response from the pro recording / instrument dealers.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Regards
George.
Well I would do the eq on playback rather then record, but there are plenty of reasonable parametric eqs out there for a lot less money.
Klark Technic (DN 410), Rane (PEQ 55), BSS and the like all make em, or just cascade a couple of state variable filters (which is all these things are), opamps, resistors and caps, the only trick is that depending on the definition of Q you are using for the control, you may need a three or four gang pot for the centre frequency.
Of these the KT is probably the best, and they do turn up second hand. Note that it will probably be setup for pro level signals (+4dbu nominal, with clipping at around +22dbu or so).
I have never really understood the mindset that assumes that your room must have the same acoustic behaviour as the room the recording was made in, and that therefore EQ is not required...... Now EQ has its limitations, it cannot correct time domain problems for example, but it has its place like all tools so I don't understand why the hifi crowd tend to be so down on its use.
In the live sound game it is pretty much vital both for mixing and as a tool to get a reasonable gain before feedback, it is not uncommon to see 12db notches on a house graphic, or very high Q notch filters used on the house DSP.
Regards, Dan.
Klark Technic (DN 410), Rane (PEQ 55), BSS and the like all make em, or just cascade a couple of state variable filters (which is all these things are), opamps, resistors and caps, the only trick is that depending on the definition of Q you are using for the control, you may need a three or four gang pot for the centre frequency.
Of these the KT is probably the best, and they do turn up second hand. Note that it will probably be setup for pro level signals (+4dbu nominal, with clipping at around +22dbu or so).
I have never really understood the mindset that assumes that your room must have the same acoustic behaviour as the room the recording was made in, and that therefore EQ is not required...... Now EQ has its limitations, it cannot correct time domain problems for example, but it has its place like all tools so I don't understand why the hifi crowd tend to be so down on its use.
In the live sound game it is pretty much vital both for mixing and as a tool to get a reasonable gain before feedback, it is not uncommon to see 12db notches on a house graphic, or very high Q notch filters used on the house DSP.
Regards, Dan.
Hi Dan
Thanks for your response. I was not sure how this post was going to be responded to, as it does border on Pro Audio / mastering.
I also do agree with your comments regarding EQ balances of differing environments.
The results that I got with the Avalon loan unit, (which also came with a death threat if I damaged it!!!) was spectacular.
However, I re EQ'ed prior to recording on the HD.
Basically, I over emphasised the frequencies that I consided were lacking, recorded them, and they played back beautifully.
I was a bit of trial and error though.
I do agree that puting the EQ at the end of the chain, ie playback is probably the best place to have it, but I was really interested to see if I could correct it prior to recording.
I have given up on discussing this with the audio dealers, they are of very little help.
However the music / pro recording dealers are a completely the opposite.
They understand the problem, and have offered me many solutions.
Regards
George.
Thanks for your response. I was not sure how this post was going to be responded to, as it does border on Pro Audio / mastering.
I also do agree with your comments regarding EQ balances of differing environments.
The results that I got with the Avalon loan unit, (which also came with a death threat if I damaged it!!!) was spectacular.
However, I re EQ'ed prior to recording on the HD.
Basically, I over emphasised the frequencies that I consided were lacking, recorded them, and they played back beautifully.
I was a bit of trial and error though.
I do agree that puting the EQ at the end of the chain, ie playback is probably the best place to have it, but I was really interested to see if I could correct it prior to recording.
I have given up on discussing this with the audio dealers, they are of very little help.
However the music / pro recording dealers are a completely the opposite.
They understand the problem, and have offered me many solutions.
Regards
George.
Interesting thread, and it's something I have wondered about too.
Have a look at the last item here -- the "Digital" one. Is this anything similar to your borrowed one or am I totally off the mark. I once read that for a "tone control" system to be of much practical use you have to at least get to a 3rd order aproximation. Would be very interesting to try something like this.
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/b...Ntk=gensearch_003&Ntt=graphic+equalisers&Ntx=
Have a look at the last item here -- the "Digital" one. Is this anything similar to your borrowed one or am I totally off the mark. I once read that for a "tone control" system to be of much practical use you have to at least get to a 3rd order aproximation. Would be very interesting to try something like this.
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/search/b...Ntk=gensearch_003&Ntt=graphic+equalisers&Ntx=
Avalon eq's are switched frequency switched amplitude discrete class A circuitry analogue devices. Probably a bit esoteric for Farnell.
Hi Mooly.
The EQ that I was using was a parametric type equalizer, whereas the types on the Farnell site are predominantly graphic EQ, and some 1/3rd octave.
At least these ones allow for finer control.
A paramatric lets you pick the frequency, adjust the width of the band, and the level of cut or boost.
I played with this type device for the first time in my life, and found it quite amazing.
Also, I am very fortunate indeed, to have a friend that was able to loan me one, and I admit that this unit is definately at the top end. Hence my comment before that i had a "death threat" if I damaged it.
I only had the unit for a few days, and it has now gone back into my friends studio.
However, I have started looking for more affordable alternatives, and the pick of the crop at the moment, and at a resonable price is the RANE PEQ55 parametric EQ.
I have atatched a pic of the Avalon unit, which I found on their web site.
Trust me, it is a thing of beauty.
Regards
George.
The EQ that I was using was a parametric type equalizer, whereas the types on the Farnell site are predominantly graphic EQ, and some 1/3rd octave.
At least these ones allow for finer control.
A paramatric lets you pick the frequency, adjust the width of the band, and the level of cut or boost.
I played with this type device for the first time in my life, and found it quite amazing.
Also, I am very fortunate indeed, to have a friend that was able to loan me one, and I admit that this unit is definately at the top end. Hence my comment before that i had a "death threat" if I damaged it.
I only had the unit for a few days, and it has now gone back into my friends studio.
However, I have started looking for more affordable alternatives, and the pick of the crop at the moment, and at a resonable price is the RANE PEQ55 parametric EQ.
I have atatched a pic of the Avalon unit, which I found on their web site.
Trust me, it is a thing of beauty.
Regards
George.
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Hello George,
That looks a serious piece of kit- very nice 🙂 When you mention equalisers and so, I guess it kind of sit's uncomfortably with the philosophy of most of the designs on here. When you think about it though, most of what is on your CD's etc has been through many stages of processing. Surely it makes more sense to have control over the final sound, rather than spending thousands on different speakers to correct a small anomaly. And surely, whatever amp you like be it tube, FET etc, those qualities will still be there.
Dug this up, it's in the CPC catalogue but now discontinued. A valve parametric equaliser.
http://www.behringer.com/T1951/index.cfm?lang=ENG
Regards Karl
That looks a serious piece of kit- very nice 🙂 When you mention equalisers and so, I guess it kind of sit's uncomfortably with the philosophy of most of the designs on here. When you think about it though, most of what is on your CD's etc has been through many stages of processing. Surely it makes more sense to have control over the final sound, rather than spending thousands on different speakers to correct a small anomaly. And surely, whatever amp you like be it tube, FET etc, those qualities will still be there.
Dug this up, it's in the CPC catalogue but now discontinued. A valve parametric equaliser.
http://www.behringer.com/T1951/index.cfm?lang=ENG
Regards Karl
What you can actually correct (with off the shelf EQ boxes anyway) is actually rather limited, for example room cancellation is seldom worth fixing as it will normally just give an antinode somewhere else in the room, and all time domain effects are a lost cause.
Also, while it may be possible to tweak out a problem with a speakers amplitude response, the phase response of the resulting system will most likely be anything but linear phase.
Now that is not to say that the things are not seriously useful (They are), but it is entirely too easy to abuse them to try to fix things that are better left unfixed.
Live sound uses them across the entire mix because acoustic feedback is just such a pain without them, and studios use them for all sorts of things, but the 'audiophile' end of the consumer market seems to care about 'purity' far more then almost any of the guys making the records do and this has spread to the general consumer segment of the same market!
Incidentally, the Rane is ok, but the KT is the 'go to' unit (At least among live sound types who have not gone digital).
Any real pro audio dealer will be able to get you either (And will not even blink at the order). I would also normally expect to pay well under list (Nobody pays list prices in the pro audio market).
Regards, Dan.
Also, while it may be possible to tweak out a problem with a speakers amplitude response, the phase response of the resulting system will most likely be anything but linear phase.
Now that is not to say that the things are not seriously useful (They are), but it is entirely too easy to abuse them to try to fix things that are better left unfixed.
Live sound uses them across the entire mix because acoustic feedback is just such a pain without them, and studios use them for all sorts of things, but the 'audiophile' end of the consumer market seems to care about 'purity' far more then almost any of the guys making the records do and this has spread to the general consumer segment of the same market!
Incidentally, the Rane is ok, but the KT is the 'go to' unit (At least among live sound types who have not gone digital).
Any real pro audio dealer will be able to get you either (And will not even blink at the order). I would also normally expect to pay well under list (Nobody pays list prices in the pro audio market).
Regards, Dan.
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