To sell or not to sell

What do you think about this:

a friend of mine after seeing my SOZ in passdiy asked me how much it cost, but I told him that's not for sale.

My question is:

Can we/should we sell this amps that are the product of Nelson Pass work and kindly gives it to us DIYers?

I dont know if an amp like SOZ has some kind of copyrigth since is a differencial pair that comes in every electronic text book, but I didn't see actually any DIYamp or comercial that uses that kind of topology.

I think that we should build amps for pleasure and not for €€€.

if you need some space for another amp, you can allways give the older one to your brother or sister in his birthday. They sure look better that any sony with 1000W and 15 inputs and two faced remotes!!!
 

roddyama

Ex-Moderator
2002-01-19 9:25 am
Michigan
Pedro,

If your not using it you should go ahead and sell it, unless you plan on passing it down to your grandchildren. A few people have actively tried to sell their DIY Pass amps on the forum. Besides, you'll just take the money and buy the parts for the new xover from Mr. Pass. It's not as if your going in business.

I think if you were to ask him, Mr. Pass wouldn't mind.

Rodd Yamashita
 
It all depends how much profit you would get out of such a sale.
I tried to sell some of my work before, but when you calculate time you wasted on making that particular product you will never get your money back. Its mostly recovering the money you spend on parts and maybe a small little bonus. Remember that your first product is always a prototype and its always very expensive. One way to move forward is to sell you previous projects to get the money for new ones which are usually better.;)
 

Brett

Member
2002-01-07 6:02 pm
PedroPO said:
What do you think about this:

a friend of mine after seeing my SOZ in passdiy asked me how much it cost, but I told him that's not for sale.

My question is:

Can we/should we sell this amps that are the product of Nelson Pass work and kindly gives it to us DIYers?

Hola Pedro,
A couple of years ago, I looked at building some of Lynn Olson's Ariel speakers. They are not as simple to build as a normal ported box, and there were a number of other people interested in them too. I found a carpenter who would build the enclosures for a good price if they were done in a batch, and started to organise a group project. We argued the ethics of this between us for a while, and decided that as we weren't doing it commercially (ie to make a profit) and the cabinetmaker who was definitely not an audiophile was only making money for his skilled labour, it did not break the 'spirit' of Lynn's gift of his project. I organised it, and would have 'made' money <i>only</i> n the sense that I saved a bit on mine because it was cheaper to do 6 pairs than one. Everyone was paying the same price for the cabs. In the end the other people involved all pulled out, and I built them myself.

Audiophiles are the biggest PITA's to deal with sometimes.

I think that we should build amps for pleasure and not for €€€.

I'm trained and experienced in EE, so why shouldn't I make money off it if I want to? I don't see it as any different to building a radio or robotic gear for example.

I have been approached by a guy who wants me to build an amp for him, based on a 'gifted' project like (though not) the Pass ones. As I'm not designing, modifying, or even supplying most of the parts, and simply providing my labour to someone else who doesn't have the appropriate skills, why not? I'll sleep better too knowing he won't fry himself on the B+ or burn down his house with some poor wiring. I'm not really keen on doing it (PITA aspect), and to help keep the DIY spirit in the project, he will have to source the majority of the parts, and help with the construction. By the end of it I hope he can read and understand a basic schematic, be able to solder competently and be aware of the safety issues in dealing with potentially lethal voltages. My estimate for the time involved at even a low rate of pay is equivalent to the cost of some parts I need for a future project, so I might trade the labour for a gift of them. That way I get what I want, and he will get far more than he bargained for, and might even be able to do the next project himself.

I agree with HPotter above, where he says that most projects are sold to make room for the next and help finance it. In my experience you never realise even the parts cost back in a sale, let alone make a profit. Audio projects have no special spiritual value that disallows them from being sold. Their value comes in the pleasure of building and using them, and the learning from the process.



I would be interested in Nelson's opinion on where the line is for him between commercial and DIY, wrt building his designs for others.

Cheers
 
Kharma Dogma

So the scenario is that you have your newly built masterpiece, and it soundly trounces the item that you have been using as your reference upto now, so you decide that you should sell the now retired item in order to recoup the cost of the parts involved and some beer money.

The catch is that YOU know that this for sale item is the second best and you end up de-valueing the fruits of your efforts accordingly, and also because you have more concience than the salesmen at the local hifi dealer shop.

If the recipient is happy with the deal, then no harm is done, and indeed the reputation of the likes of Mr NP is enhanced, and likely he will eventually profit by his selflessness.

Its a kharma thing.

Regards, Eric.
 
I personally have a strong affection for the things I make.

I don't feel confortable to sell or give any of my babies.

It's kind of rent-a-womb. the mother becomes emotionally attached to the baby.:)

But what about the legal stuff?

Nelson said he doen'st mind if we make one sale. What about ten?

do this amps have a copywright?

in the aspect of leaving room for another amp, I think you shouldn't say that!

how will Nelson Pass believe we actually need a AXO if we don't have several amps?:D
 

grataku

Member
2000-12-31 9:31 am
-
Pedro
Watch out! I am sure Nelson's police is cruising down the block right now!
It's kind of hard to know if you are playing the honest suit or you are just plain dumb. And that goes for all the other ethics freaX out here. There is something about the discourse, almost like a semi-covert way of kissing *** that is absolutely intolerable to me.
In my judgement there are better, more dignified ways of acknowledging people contribution and expressing gratitude to them than this.
Anyways, the kind of overzelousness I saw in this post is very tiresome.

As long as you don't insert the notorious resistor "X" in your witches brew, a differential mosfet pair should be free for the taking. Though I don't see Nelson going to court trying to claim the ownership of a feedback resistor hoping to collect millions of dollars from a bunch of money-less diyers.
If some looser starts to mass produce, setup web sites, advertise on the Absolute Sound, then he or she may have a problem.

that is my 2c GRATA-itous Hai-KU
 
another thing.

Apart from living in Portugal were the HIFI market is for the nerd squad (not even a luxury), I think that a Amp like Nelson Pass' SOZ with 5W/ch and costing about €400 to produce couldn't hit the TOP 1000 best selling amps.

Maybe that's why NP doesn't sell them @ Pass Labs.

I was really concerned about NP rigths, legal or not, as I would, if I give any of my designs to a friend and he afterwords would sell them.