After a very extended break due to ill health I'm finally ready to build my speakers.
Drivers are:
Faital Pro 15FH510 for bass: FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 15FH510
B&C 10MD26 for mids: B&C Speakers
Faital Pro HF144 for highs: FaitalPRO | HF Drivers | HF144
The room is as per the attached image (measurements in cm). Bay is 72cm deep? Speakers will be located either side of the bay window.
I'm hoping to split the frequencies at 200 and 1500 to start. Ill use a minidsp 2x4 to play around with to start and may progress to 2 2x4HD if i like the sound. Either that or start the laborious task of passive xover.
I have a 4 by 2 multicellular horn for the HF144 to start with. I'd like to play with other horns, JMLC for example but this will do to start
The 10MD26 will be sealed into a Nautaloss spiral as per xrk971 design - The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
The mid and high units will be firing down the length of the room away from the bay window wall. I would like to try them in the corners to start.
The bass is the only real question I have. There are two options.
Option 1: build cabinets to fit the corner (max WAF outside of option 2) and reduce the output to deal with the loading
Option 2: we are building a small booth (2 benches and a table facing each other across the bay) into the bay window. The seats could quite easily work as cabinets for the 15FH510 firing down the room.
I've included some enclosure sims for sealed and ported designs. I like the sealed as it gives extension at the loss of max achievable bass in the vented cab.
My system technics sl1200mkii with Denon DL110, various phono preamps, mac mini with various format music (minimum being AIFF 16/44), hifimediy asynchronous usb dac, B1 Korg, ACA of various types, Peter Daniels F5, MOFO and F4 to come.
I listen to anything, as long as i like it, opera to rock, techno to baroque, lone female vocals to concerts. I like to hear details (only if their in the recording obviously) the breath of the singer, the bow on the strings, skin on the strings.....basically the little things that make the whole. I love speakers that kick, sharp and hard and I'm not averse to loosing out on the lowest bass to get the tightest bass.
Hope this is comprehensive enough. Let me know what you think
Drivers are:
Faital Pro 15FH510 for bass: FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 15FH510
B&C 10MD26 for mids: B&C Speakers
Faital Pro HF144 for highs: FaitalPRO | HF Drivers | HF144
The room is as per the attached image (measurements in cm). Bay is 72cm deep? Speakers will be located either side of the bay window.
I'm hoping to split the frequencies at 200 and 1500 to start. Ill use a minidsp 2x4 to play around with to start and may progress to 2 2x4HD if i like the sound. Either that or start the laborious task of passive xover.
I have a 4 by 2 multicellular horn for the HF144 to start with. I'd like to play with other horns, JMLC for example but this will do to start
The 10MD26 will be sealed into a Nautaloss spiral as per xrk971 design - The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
The mid and high units will be firing down the length of the room away from the bay window wall. I would like to try them in the corners to start.
The bass is the only real question I have. There are two options.
Option 1: build cabinets to fit the corner (max WAF outside of option 2) and reduce the output to deal with the loading
Option 2: we are building a small booth (2 benches and a table facing each other across the bay) into the bay window. The seats could quite easily work as cabinets for the 15FH510 firing down the room.
I've included some enclosure sims for sealed and ported designs. I like the sealed as it gives extension at the loss of max achievable bass in the vented cab.
My system technics sl1200mkii with Denon DL110, various phono preamps, mac mini with various format music (minimum being AIFF 16/44), hifimediy asynchronous usb dac, B1 Korg, ACA of various types, Peter Daniels F5, MOFO and F4 to come.
I listen to anything, as long as i like it, opera to rock, techno to baroque, lone female vocals to concerts. I like to hear details (only if their in the recording obviously) the breath of the singer, the bow on the strings, skin on the strings.....basically the little things that make the whole. I love speakers that kick, sharp and hard and I'm not averse to loosing out on the lowest bass to get the tightest bass.
Hope this is comprehensive enough. Let me know what you think
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The Faital Pro HF144 SPL drops rapidly starting ~13kHz. One early experiment would be to mount the HF144 onto your multicellular horn and measure the SPL using your minidsp 2x4 to both boost upper frequency SPLs, and also smooth the horn interactions. The results could help set your direction.
Thanks for the info LineSource. I’ll check that out. I do have a pair of fostex ft17h
Somewhere I could press into very high frequency roles.
Any thought in positioning of the bass drivers?
Somewhere I could press into very high frequency roles.
Any thought in positioning of the bass drivers?
Thanks AllanB.
I’ve looked for info about corner placement. There are of course the corner horns with expansion built in to the cabinet. I know there is a corner speaker kit provider on the forum but can’t remember the name 😀
Here’s some bits I’ve gleaned (screen grabbed)
If you have the chance to separate your low-frequency devices from your mid/high-frequency devices [i.e., a subwoofer with small loudspeakers], you should place your mid/high frequency devices where they give you the best possible imaging and the bass units all the way into the corner of the room. If the bass units are in the corner of the room the whole initial sound from the woofer is minimum phase. It is all going in the right direction at once. Whereas if you try to reproduce the low frequencies from your main speaker standing freely in the room, then much of the bass will go back into the corner of the room, reverse, and then come dripping back to you in the next 4, 5, 6, 10 milliseconds.
Corner placement is actually nice for speakers because it insures maximum coupling to the room and minimum power input required to generate the bass you want. But, of course, you have to add some time delay if you’re going to put the woofers in the corners.
I’m assuming (yes I know) The ‘easy to get wrong part is generating overwhelming and uncontrollable bass?
How can I avoid/mitigate this runaway bass issue?
As for bass cabinet size. I’ve read that with sealed bass, the larger the cabinet, the less pressurizing of the cavity. If you run an IB cabinet, which is a bit of an oxymoron, ie: minimum 4X the Vas, the panel exciting is much less, no?
I’ve looked for info about corner placement. There are of course the corner horns with expansion built in to the cabinet. I know there is a corner speaker kit provider on the forum but can’t remember the name 😀
Here’s some bits I’ve gleaned (screen grabbed)
If you have the chance to separate your low-frequency devices from your mid/high-frequency devices [i.e., a subwoofer with small loudspeakers], you should place your mid/high frequency devices where they give you the best possible imaging and the bass units all the way into the corner of the room. If the bass units are in the corner of the room the whole initial sound from the woofer is minimum phase. It is all going in the right direction at once. Whereas if you try to reproduce the low frequencies from your main speaker standing freely in the room, then much of the bass will go back into the corner of the room, reverse, and then come dripping back to you in the next 4, 5, 6, 10 milliseconds.
Corner placement is actually nice for speakers because it insures maximum coupling to the room and minimum power input required to generate the bass you want. But, of course, you have to add some time delay if you’re going to put the woofers in the corners.
I’m assuming (yes I know) The ‘easy to get wrong part is generating overwhelming and uncontrollable bass?
How can I avoid/mitigate this runaway bass issue?
As for bass cabinet size. I’ve read that with sealed bass, the larger the cabinet, the less pressurizing of the cavity. If you run an IB cabinet, which is a bit of an oxymoron, ie: minimum 4X the Vas, the panel exciting is much less, no?
Bass is easier to blend into corner radiation because wavelengths are larger, but room modes will be wanting the multi-sub treatment. You don't have to use large devices for this.
The IB is interesting, but I'm thinking a larger panel is less stiff, and is a larger radiating surface.
The IB is interesting, but I'm thinking a larger panel is less stiff, and is a larger radiating surface.
2 cabs for bass is the max I’m allowed 😉 Is good Corner bass still possible?
If it helps here’s the modes calculated for my room.
If it helps here’s the modes calculated for my room.
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2 cabs? What is good corner sound?
Good coupling means less sound lost to reflections. This is best in the (lower) midrange and traditional baffle step region. The bass simply activates the room modes.
Good coupling means less sound lost to reflections. This is best in the (lower) midrange and traditional baffle step region. The bass simply activates the room modes.
So possible but with pitfalls
Would placing the bass drivers at different heights in the corners bring some of the distributed bass benefits?
Are there any benefits to going with a larger sealed cabinet than I modelled? I have in mind I read somewhere that there is some benefit around VAS sized sealed cabs.
Would placing the bass drivers at different heights in the corners bring some of the distributed bass benefits?
Are there any benefits to going with a larger sealed cabinet than I modelled? I have in mind I read somewhere that there is some benefit around VAS sized sealed cabs.
If you put the woofer higher up it will distribute the vertical modes. A corner line array will eliminate the vertical modes. The others may still need some work.
There are still good reasons to do this, it just changes the way you do it. Ideally the tweeter would be waveguided. I should have said that earlier.
I understand your concerns with IB. I think I saw GM here today who knows a lot on the subject.
There are still good reasons to do this, it just changes the way you do it. Ideally the tweeter would be waveguided. I should have said that earlier.
I understand your concerns with IB. I think I saw GM here today who knows a lot on the subject.
For example, this topic More Midrange Sweet Spot
is about larger speakers. You could make a short off-topic, or alternately offer a link over to this thread.
is about larger speakers. You could make a short off-topic, or alternately offer a link over to this thread.