jlsem said:
it's the kind of thing where the person doin' the dissin' is predisposed to dismiss anything I might say or bring to the table.
One has to be interested enough in the subject to go and find what I say about the situation- for and by themselves. Me attempting to 'rail against' your self created psychological barriers is not a productive pursuit. It is a situation where your internal design has set both me and you up for failure, with regards to proving anything that I might say- to your satisfaction.
Basically, according to your own internal psychological design, which in fact and in point, is hidden from your conscious mind and runs your life in totality-- It sets you and I up for failure from the get-go.
If this were not true, there would be zero political, social or cultural human relational issues and not a single obese or obsessive person would exist anywhere in the world.
In essence, you have to go out and desire to search for that truth yourself.
Conclusionally speaking- it's not me dude----it's you. You are the problem. You (the global you, ie applicable to all human mental constructions) are your own problem in such things.
You will not accept the truth being thrust upon you. But you will accept it if you go and search for it by yourself. Which requires a precondition of a true desire for truths. You have to be in 'search mode' which requires a dropping of the internal guard and be willing to accept what you see at face value until all parts of the complex puzzle reveal themselves and you can attempt to piece them together. This will take time. Lots of time. Mostly, this time will be all about you fighting with the internal constructs of your mind, with regards to the ideals that emotionally hold you in place, regarding the constructs of reality. In exactly the same way you deal with the loss of family members or a love in your life. Pain--and time.
the unconscious mind being one hell of a lot smarter and faster than the conscious mind - you ask me to prove it, to attempt to thrust truths upon you that you can easily dismiss as only the conclusional statements are there, not the proofs via personal full scale investigative work--- and thereby set us both up for failure.
This is why the 'signs of esoteric works' exist as signs..signs that one can go and investigate, if one decides that they want to really know how reality and the universe works.
If you go through this thread, you will find that I have said the above things in about a dozen different ways and times.
Which tends to bring home the understanding that what I say on this, with regards to human recognition of these psychological conditions and considerations -is true.
Basically, again, your mind will tell you that what I just wrote is garbage and there is 'nothing there' and that I need to see a psychiatrist in some fashion or another.
The things I'm saying cannot be TOLD to anyone. One must investigate and understand for themselves. You really really really have to WANT to know. You have to be willing to pay for it. And you will pay, via a complete restructuring of your mind, in it's entirety. And the process will be painful, and it will take time. Years, in fact. To outsides of the situation, it will appear as if one has lost their mind, for a time. This may happen repeatedly as the mind has to reorganize on the most basic levels. To others it may appear much like Robin Williams in the film, 'The Fisher King'. Totally Bug-fornicate crazy.
It should be a recognized point that in any endeavor which encompasses aspects of infinity..there will be factors which will, by their very nature, engage the investigator of such things in a manner which also has infinite aspects. Basic logic 101.
The vast majority of 'human' minds do not understand infinity due to the fact that they are specifically and forcefully not allowing it in.
Limited view - limited reach. Basic logic 101. You want to know the outer world in it's entirety, then you have to know the inner world in it's entirety. Things have to balance out.
If one makes the attempt, both happen at the same time. Your understanding and you psychological condition both change at the same time. It's perilous at best, for most folks.
Some who understand these things feel that if such truths were known and revealed at one time, the most vulnerable people to self inflicted wounds, ie, suicide or self mutilation or similar de-constructional/restructuring aspects of psychology emerging as physical aspects - that group will be the linear thinking structured scientific types. As all of their constructs will be torn down and replaced with new ones. New ones that take what they know to a much higher level, but one that requires that which they 'know' to be corrected to a completely different and far more involving set of constructs that are not based in any science or reality that they currently consciously know.
To put it gently: Math, science and physics do not encompass ALL aspects of reality, on any scale. Therefore, they cannot be used as tools to understand all things, all aspects of 'reality'. Your set of tools must become deeper-and larger than that limited scope.
But I will tell you this: It's one hell of a lot more awe inspiring and fun on this side of that barrier. The longer one waits and pushes it away, the longer it takes to get there.
keantoken said:
Since I can not possibly prove that aliens did not build/help build the pyramids, there is not much point.
I heard there is a lot of mono-atomic gold found at crop circles.
KBK said:
Having a guide can really be helpful, and some drugs can temporarily break down some of the barriers (once you have an idea of what you are searching for, things become somewhat easier)... that scared most of those "in charge" so much that most of them have been banned.
dave
All of that aside, why then can't Notre Dame be built again? It looks straight forward enough to me.
The problem with all of these so-called truths that are "thrust upon me" is they lead down roads that quickly dead end upon closer scrutiny.
John
The problem with all of these so-called truths that are "thrust upon me" is they lead down roads that quickly dead end upon closer scrutiny.
John
I get the impression you don't know exactly what kind of roads these are. Only after you have traveled the path will you have gained the knowledge necessary to know whether or not it is truly a dead end. The road trip focuses on gaining insight, and in particular (from my own experience) it can aid in joining the creative and logical parts of the mind. It helps both lobes operate cooperatively, which is something to be gained.
The trip is not a journey meant to find an end - it most likely will not happen. The journey lasts as long as you want it to and can end at any time. The aim is to acquire self-knowledge. You begin to understand things from the inside out, rather than having to apply learned knowledge without understanding. Rather than having to study and draw conclusions based on innumerable observations, you understand things because you see how at the very fundamental level, they work just like you.
In my opinion this would help a great deal of psychologists. They'll apply what they've learned, but won't even try to put themselves in their patients' shoes. And so every opportunity for real solutions just slips by, one after the other. The patient is left to deal with the insecurities implanted in him, and at the same time try and understand what the psychologist wants or how this is supposed to help him. But unless the psychologist accidentally does something right, no healing is actually done that wasn't a direct and single-handed effort by the patient.
I guess the point is, if you think you need help, get a good psychologist.
Personally, I would advocate Robert M. Pirsig:
If and when you ever think that you might have something to gain from metaphysics, you know what to do and where to find the information. It is a matter of your personal path, I think.
- keantoken
That's all well and good, but I am referring to the so-called "truths" being promulgated by KBK made up mostly of free-energy scams, philosopher stone scams, aliens-from-space scams, Kennedy assassination conspiracy scams, crop circle scams, water-fueled IC engine scams, ad nauseam. These ideas only pollute the brain and cloud free thinking and the formulation of ideas. Fantasy is not the same as metaphysics and going off the deep end only confuses reality and fantasy, and ends up helping cause the destruction of clear thinking.
John
John
And despite a 10,000 word essay, he didn't answer your straightforward question on Notre Dame.
jlsem said:
Some (or many) of these are scams propagated by people trying to gain power. Some of them are not.
This is why I believe you should only start thinking about metaphysics and such when and if your personal path leads to it. Then you are ready for it and it is a part of your development and you can absorb the knowledge and understand it at the same time. Otherwise you're really not interested and when someone tries to "thrust these truths upon you" it will all be ad nauseam and in very few ways relevant to you.
At a certain point the spiritual path becomes the physical path as well and the material things you learn do not serve to hinder your progress and understanding. Instead of gaining Points in the gaming sense, you gain insight and you maintain your inner peace. So when it is personally applicable, metaphysics is not a scam. If you go into it hoping to easily gain insight and understanding of the universe, then sorry, next customer.
I do believe KBK has very important things to say but it will only matter to those it who want it. In the meantime I do not believe it is constructive to repeatedly criticize him. If it his reality does not fit your reality then do not bother to try and reshape it because it and you are clearly not compatible.
At any rate, I think we should stay on topic. 😀
- keantoken
OK Keantoken (HAL
), if you don't cooperate I will have to unleash the attack killer bunny rabbits. 😀 😉
), if you don't cooperate I will have to unleash the attack killer bunny rabbits. 😀 😉