PB2 said:
What kind of "situation" are you referring to, and exactly what do you mean by "escalating"
At the moment you have the "ignore bottom", which I think is bad enough in itself, but obviously never used...seems many people like a "good fight"...what do you say in english, "nothing comes from nothing" 😱
Very often when a thread starter feel insulted, the reason can often been found in and starts with himself...he mostly is and should be responsible fore the general "tone" in his thread, dont blame the members if they follow his style, because with most certainty they will...you know this modern caveman mentality...and now you want us to be completely ball-less
Well, a man seeks advice to build a 4way speaker....the only real answer should be, "sorry mate, none of us have that experience, youre on your own"...but we do know that its pretty difficult, right
I actually do prefer to be on my own when building speakers...noone to argue with, and noone to blame either...on your own with a project is almost like ZEN magic
But you are right... this "grandma-style" saying "you can do this and that, but not...."....well, it quickly becomes pretty boring endlessly repeating one self, no matter if its the truth or not
Luckily new and skilled people comes by from time to time, to releave us from this burdon
I actually do prefer to be on my own when building speakers...noone to argue with, and noone to blame either...on your own with a project is almost like ZEN magic
But you are right... this "grandma-style" saying "you can do this and that, but not...."....well, it quickly becomes pretty boring endlessly repeating one self, no matter if its the truth or not
Luckily new and skilled people comes by from time to time, to releave us from this burdon
Hi Pete,
I was trying to cover thread issues in general. Your thread simply provided an opportunity to visit these other issues.
Many members here do have some kind of feel for other members who post often, but even if they are total strangers it is not unlike a business meeting. When I was working, I often was called into meetings with several different trades and architects. Many of these people I had never met before. Certainly meeting new clients qualifies also. I worked in telecommunications and often had to deal with individuals who had conflicting interests. Some even created problems and issues. Pays to keep all your ducks in a row when that happens. My point is that I've run into many "children". People who failed kindergarten and didn't play nice. Forums are the same except that we are missing all the facial clues and body language that reinforces the meaning of our comments.
The one and only way for any thread to remain civil would be to learn not to internalize the comments people leave. That and to only allow true adults in. Since we cannot determine who has matured mentally, we can only try to mediate. The second last resort is to close a thread. The last resort is to move the thread to an area where it is not in the main stream. Unfortunately these are the only tools that the moderating team has to deal with poor behavior from many members. Individuals who misbehave have posts made to give guidance, then sometimes some direct email. Failing those things, we can either give those members a "time out" (I hate that phrase, call it jail 😉 ) or they may be banned. Our ban is a real ban. Therefore, it is used as a last resort for those who will not abide by the simple rules.
Pete, if another method for dealing with poor behavior comes of this thread, I'll be very grateful indeed. I'm sure the entire moderating team would love that!
In the end, it's only our collective membership that can determine the feel of this site. Everyone's agreement to "play nice" will enrich the overall experience. Moderators are only here to help the membership, and never forget that we are members too. There is no joy in closing a thread or dealing with a bad situation.
I am speaking in general terms. I would like to thank you for bringing the subject up.
-Chris
I was trying to cover thread issues in general. Your thread simply provided an opportunity to visit these other issues.
Many members here do have some kind of feel for other members who post often, but even if they are total strangers it is not unlike a business meeting. When I was working, I often was called into meetings with several different trades and architects. Many of these people I had never met before. Certainly meeting new clients qualifies also. I worked in telecommunications and often had to deal with individuals who had conflicting interests. Some even created problems and issues. Pays to keep all your ducks in a row when that happens. My point is that I've run into many "children". People who failed kindergarten and didn't play nice. Forums are the same except that we are missing all the facial clues and body language that reinforces the meaning of our comments.
The one and only way for any thread to remain civil would be to learn not to internalize the comments people leave. That and to only allow true adults in. Since we cannot determine who has matured mentally, we can only try to mediate. The second last resort is to close a thread. The last resort is to move the thread to an area where it is not in the main stream. Unfortunately these are the only tools that the moderating team has to deal with poor behavior from many members. Individuals who misbehave have posts made to give guidance, then sometimes some direct email. Failing those things, we can either give those members a "time out" (I hate that phrase, call it jail 😉 ) or they may be banned. Our ban is a real ban. Therefore, it is used as a last resort for those who will not abide by the simple rules.
Pete, if another method for dealing with poor behavior comes of this thread, I'll be very grateful indeed. I'm sure the entire moderating team would love that!
In the end, it's only our collective membership that can determine the feel of this site. Everyone's agreement to "play nice" will enrich the overall experience. Moderators are only here to help the membership, and never forget that we are members too. There is no joy in closing a thread or dealing with a bad situation.
I am speaking in general terms. I would like to thank you for bringing the subject up.
-Chris
If you've participated in more than one thread, and in some you get in arguments, and in some you don't (which has been my experience), then you have some reason to think you're not gunning for an argument, at least not all of the time.
There's no doubt in my mind that Glen was gunning for an argument, as he has come over here to continue it. No problem, as far as I'm concerned, he's obviously a quick study and used to a bit of rough-and-tumble, and who are we to disappoint him.
This kind of ad-hoc argument-on-the-fly approach can often lead one to box oneself in, so I'm not surprised he picked up his marbles and went home for a while
(Un)fortunately it's the only game in town.
Nobody has to post. Nobody has to read.
How do you know it's not a computer generating these messages? Keep a sense of perspective...
w
In England we say 'rien de rien' ectually.
There's no doubt in my mind that Glen was gunning for an argument, as he has come over here to continue it. No problem, as far as I'm concerned, he's obviously a quick study and used to a bit of rough-and-tumble, and who are we to disappoint him.
This kind of ad-hoc argument-on-the-fly approach can often lead one to box oneself in, so I'm not surprised he picked up his marbles and went home for a while
(Un)fortunately it's the only game in town.
Nobody has to post. Nobody has to read.
How do you know it's not a computer generating these messages? Keep a sense of perspective...
w
In England we say 'rien de rien' ectually.
In case of Glen I dont recall anything other than people being nice and honest, but on the other hand he was told not to be so fighsty towards people trying to help him...if I havent missed any kind of intermezzo in the end I really dont know of any reason fore Glen to close his thread, other than he got stuck and frustrated...so from that I would say THIS thread is based on the wrong assumptions, conclusions or whatever...but as said I may have missed something in the end
Hi tinitus,
-Chris
He didn't, the moderating team did. A thread will not be closed without a good reason.
Who knows? This thread did bring up some valid points. I think we should continue to explore the main ideas that Pete brought up.
-Chris
anatech said:
Thanks Chris,
I agree with most of your analysis of the psychological situation, however analysis is not a solution. When I see someone who is clearly out simply to boost their ego and be confrontational, I know fairly quickly that I want them out of my thread. Similarly when they simply want to preach their rigid formula for how to build a system - if it conflicts fundamentally with what I'm looking for then nothing productive comes out of the discussion. I'm talking, of course, about threads where a specific question is asked. Not, for example, a thread that is intended to discuss pro's and con's such as: is error correction good for an output stage?
Anyway, what did you think of the doctor analogy? Certainly we should be able to decline advice from certain people.
Pete B.
Hi Pete,
Yes, I certainly do believe you can, and should, decline advice from someone who is not being helpful, or posting with good intentions. How the heck do you police that though? Really, the only thing that can help along those lines would be the voluntary removal of one's self from the discussion.
Having said that, declining the assistance from another member should be done politely, with some grace. You should never post something that you wouldn't say out loud in a business meeting. Comedy excepted some times.
If another member is being disruptive, you can use the reporting system to issue and email to all moderators, don't misuse that feature as "you" will be at risk of looking silly or childish.
The doctor analogy falls short in one area. There is no charge for advice here, or in Canada where I live. 😀 I can see where the doctor analogy came up. many don't listen to the patient.
Now to answer a specific point ...
There is no hard and fast way to prevent anyone from doing anything. There are only consequences that can follow. The only way to have a polite forum would be to have polite members who actually develop mentally. Harsh but true.
One of my favorite sayings goes along the lines of "silly people where put on this earth to amuse me". Once you look at things this way, "superior" individuals will provide you with hours of entertainment.
-Chris
Yes, I certainly do believe you can, and should, decline advice from someone who is not being helpful, or posting with good intentions. How the heck do you police that though? Really, the only thing that can help along those lines would be the voluntary removal of one's self from the discussion.
Having said that, declining the assistance from another member should be done politely, with some grace. You should never post something that you wouldn't say out loud in a business meeting. Comedy excepted some times.
If another member is being disruptive, you can use the reporting system to issue and email to all moderators, don't misuse that feature as "you" will be at risk of looking silly or childish.
The doctor analogy falls short in one area. There is no charge for advice here, or in Canada where I live. 😀 I can see where the doctor analogy came up. many don't listen to the patient.
Now to answer a specific point ...
Often times a direction that involves a specific question forces alternative suggestions. A transformerless power supply (against forum policy as it's extremely dangerous), or a solution that is fatally flawed. An example of that would be a low pass filter for a subwoofer that leads with a capacitor placed across the amplifier's output terminals. I actually had a customer who did that to an Adcom, he got warranty the first time, but not the second time.
There is no hard and fast way to prevent anyone from doing anything. There are only consequences that can follow. The only way to have a polite forum would be to have polite members who actually develop mentally. Harsh but true.
One of my favorite sayings goes along the lines of "silly people where put on this earth to amuse me". Once you look at things this way, "superior" individuals will provide you with hours of entertainment.
-Chris
PB2 said:
What, you mean if I start to become confrontational and appear to be getting an ego boost, then you'd throw me out of this thread. YOUR thread.
It's your thread only until you hit the submit button.
Gibran[/i] [B]Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.[/B][/QUOTE] [QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PB2 said:
If you don't want to engage a particular comment, don't reply. 'Course you run the risk of coming off as a real dork.
Niven & Pournelle said:
w
wakibaki said:
Hopefully he would contact a mod so we could squish the egotists like nasty little bugs. There's no need for any sort of boost here. I laugh when I see what some write here knowing full well they aren't man enough to do the same face to face. A computer screen is a wonderful shield. Too many gain strength from the ability to hide. Hence the nicknames.
Hmmm...
And who may be the last one registrered in the sinbin...just wondering...whatever happened I dont know, but I think he had it coming sooner or later, driving the thread to the edge...I think this is a joke, and a dangerous one...ups! red flag rising
Still impressive that such things never seem to happen at Pass forum...or fulllrange forum...are we really that different...or is it really because we are immature and confused people and lack real selfconfidense
yeah, away with those we dont like, those who dont fit in and doesnt agree with us
Well, I really hope you think twice before you do something bloddy awful
Still impressive that such things never seem to happen at Pass forum...or fulllrange forum...are we really that different...or is it really because we are immature and confused people and lack real selfconfidense
yeah, away with those we dont like, those who dont fit in and doesnt agree with us
Well, I really hope you think twice before you do something bloddy awful
Hi tinitus,
It's okay to challenge an idea within reason. What does that mean exactly? I would take that to mean you can bring forth your take on things, but continuously stating the same thing (especially without proof) may count as being disruptive. So does the tactic of continuously requesting proof for the same issue.
That aside, if the original poster is the one who is being abrasive, simply don't post. That thread will die rather quickly. Now, if you have a member who is being disruptive, you can all put that member on your "ignore" list. That is my personal favorite. Disruptive people hate being ignored. Takes all the fun out of things.
So you see, all of you already have the power to correct poor behavior. To top it off, this can be fun! The ignored party ends up shouting in an empty room. I love it!
-Chris (silly people were put on this earth to amuse me)
Of course, that statement is not the way things are run. It's fine to disagree with someone. It's okay to challenge an idea within reason. As soon as a person is attacked, a line has been crossed. It matters not who you are.
It's okay to challenge an idea within reason. What does that mean exactly? I would take that to mean you can bring forth your take on things, but continuously stating the same thing (especially without proof) may count as being disruptive. So does the tactic of continuously requesting proof for the same issue.
That aside, if the original poster is the one who is being abrasive, simply don't post. That thread will die rather quickly. Now, if you have a member who is being disruptive, you can all put that member on your "ignore" list.
That is my personal favorite. Disruptive people hate being ignored. Takes all the fun out of things.So you see, all of you already have the power to correct poor behavior. To top it off, this can be fun! The ignored party ends up shouting in an empty room. I love it!
-Chris (silly people were put on this earth to amuse me)
Cal Weldon said:
anatech said:
An effective tactic. I use it on tinitus and wakibaki all the time...
😎
Be sure, i DO know the problem, which can burn the life out of any good thread...we just dont agree about the remedy...as I said, look at PASSforum, they dont need no such thing, all well behaved people, and why...they respect the man NelsonPass...they have a mutual mentor, an idol
At fullrange and tube forum its probably because they are looking at things more relaxed, more mature, taking life more easy
But on our "side"... its occationally more like a mucho macho thing...bound to go wrong
At fullrange and tube forum its probably because they are looking at things more relaxed, more mature, taking life more easy
But on our "side"... its occationally more like a mucho macho thing...bound to go wrong
anatech said:Hi Pete,
Yes, I certainly do believe you can, and should, decline advice from someone who is not being helpful, or posting with good intentions. How the heck do you police that though? Really, the only thing that can help along those lines would be the voluntary removal of one's self from the discussion.
Having said that, declining the assistance from another member should be done politely, with some grace. You should never post something that you wouldn't say out loud in a business meeting. Comedy excepted some times.
If another member is being disruptive, you can use the reporting system to issue and email to all moderators, don't misuse that feature as "you" will be at risk of looking silly or childish.
The doctor analogy falls short in one area. There is no charge for advice here, or in Canada where I live. 😀 I can see where the doctor analogy came up. many don't listen to the patient.
Now to answer a specific point ...
Often times a direction that involves a specific question forces alternative suggestions. A transformerless power supply (against forum policy as it's extremely dangerous), or a solution that is fatally flawed. An example of that would be a low pass filter for a subwoofer that leads with a capacitor placed across the amplifier's output terminals. I actually had a customer who did that to an Adcom, he got warranty the first time, but not the second time.
There is no hard and fast way to prevent anyone from doing anything. There are only consequences that can follow. The only way to have a polite forum would be to have polite members who actually develop mentally. Harsh but true.
One of my favorite sayings goes along the lines of "silly people where put on this earth to amuse me". Once you look at things this way, "superior" individuals will provide you with hours of entertainment.
-Chris
Yes, I agree ... It could be tried, if anyone is so inclined without the mods getting involved and I'd expect that most reasonable people would back off. I get the whole view of them being an amusement, and I can laugh at them. But it does get tiring, and laughing does not help keep the good threads going that end up closed. Anyway ... I understand your points.
Pete B.
MJL21193 said:
On the topic of attention the lack of perspective and hypocrisy that can be displayed here in the form of threads of continual petty personal projection and diatribes against someone not on the moderators favourites list is truly amazing.
Moved to the off topic forum where it belongs.
"Some say a waste of time, others say an incredible waste of time..."
"Some say a waste of time, others say an incredible waste of time..."
Hi Glen,
Believe me when I say that there is no such list. We could never agree on a list like that anyway. However, we do tend to see the same names pop up again and again where there is trouble. The way a member addresses other members is also a factor.
Political correctness has gone way too far I think. We have to be so careful about hurting anyones feelings.
-Chris
Believe me when I say that there is no such list. We could never agree on a list like that anyway. However, we do tend to see the same names pop up again and again where there is trouble. The way a member addresses other members is also a factor.
Glen, do you feel like this has happened to you? There is no organized group of members that I know of that goes after anyone. If "you" (and by "you", I mean anyone reading this post) feel that people are ganging up against "you", "you" should examine how "you" treat others around "you".
Political correctness has gone way too far I think. We have to be so careful about hurting anyones feelings.
-Chris
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