This is what happens...

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Ah assumed Kim was just an MIT employee! It looks like they started off claiming Vero was all new then gave up hiding the fact that it was MIT pre-selling a production run.

No, Kim runs her own marketing company.

Kim Kaplan Productions - A One Stop Media Shop Kim Kaplan Productions

Both MIT and Kim are in my neck of the woods and I got to know her before this thing erupted. She's a nice lady and hoping to bring her on board with a project I'm working on.

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I think things like surround receivers are exempt from the FTC rules, aren't they?

se

I think you're correct. But as far as consumer grade equipment goes, it's pretty much all that's available. Stereo receivers are almost extinct (there's a couple out there still, one made by Sony).

The hypothesis is that it will never have to produce full power to all 5 channels (except when it comes into my shop :D) so fudging is allowed.

But what about the Phillips/Magnavox tabletop "hi-fi" unit I measured, "50 +50 watts RMS" :eek: that actually only delivers 12 watts continuous both channels driven? That's blatant deception. In spite of this, it sounds OK - it's my computer audio system.

Older equipment does generally live up to its claims. I have 3 old receivers in my stable; a Nakamichi, a Luxman, and an RCA "made for Radio Shack" dumpster special. All 3 of these units perform to spec, and all 3 of them embarrass the JVC surround receiver in real world performance; even though they are rated for less power, they subjectively sound way more powerful.
 
I think you're correct. But as far as consumer grade equipment goes, it's pretty much all that's available. Stereo receivers are almost extinct (there's a couple out there still, one made by Sony).

The hypothesis is that it will never have to produce full power to all 5 channels (except when it comes into my shop :D) so fudging is allowed.

But what about the Phillips/Magnavox tabletop "hi-fi" unit I measured, "50 +50 watts RMS" :eek: that actually only delivers 12 watts continuous both channels driven? That's blatant deception. In spite of this, it sounds OK - it's my computer audio system.

Older equipment does generally live up to its claims. I have 3 old receivers in my stable; a Nakamichi, a Luxman, and an RCA "made for Radio Shack" dumpster special. All 3 of these units perform to spec, and all 3 of them embarrass the JVC surround receiver in real world performance; even though they are rated for less power, they subjectively sound way more powerful.

Yeah. It was multimedia and home theater gear that fell outside FTC regulations which led to that whole crazy "PMPO" power spec. I remember multimedia speakers using a 9V wall wart advertising "200 watts."

Crazy crazy.

That old home audio gear did fall under the FTC rules as it was the power shenanigans of even older hear that led to the FTC regulations in the first place.

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No, they've misunderstood it. A balanced headphone cable isn't just a balanced line cable with a 4-pin XLR instead of a 3-pin XLR.

Yes. They just never bothered to inform themselves about the new market they were entering.

It's sad that the headphone industry chose to use the term "balanced" to describe what would otherwise be called "bridged" amplifiers. It makes he headphone industry look like a bunch of chuckleheads.

But that's the reality on the ground in that industry and MIT while deciding to make a headphone cable never bothered to bring in anyone who actually knew that market. And now that they got caught red-handed stepping on their own dicks, are trying to scapegoat their way out of it.

Just a bunch of weasels if you ask me.

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I'll plead ignoramus since I basically don't use headphones. I thought that phones were always (or nearly always) three wire?

Yeah, until HeadRoom did the first "balanced" headphone amp years ago, which wasn't really balanced, but instead used four amplifiers bridged to end up with two channels. And because they were bridged, they couldn't share a common ground.

Because of the dual mono construction of the chassis, they couldn't use a single connector so they went with two 3 pin XLRs, only using two pins of each connector. But later, when other companies started doing "balanced" headphone amplifiers, they adopted the single 4 pin XLR.

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because of course the 5 pin connector sennheiser used to use on the 4xx series was way too 80s :) Not sure I ever saw an amplifier that had that connector for headphones. EDIT my mum did have a strange ITT radio cassette unit that had. Must have been a german thing!

Bear in mind that Krell were misusing 'balanced' for the FPB series back in the 90s. But the rise of the new generation of young headphones lovers does seem to have given the snake oilers a whole new market.
 
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because of course the 5 pin connector sennheiser used to use on the 4xx series was way too 80s :) Not sure I ever saw an amplifier that had that connector for headphones. EDIT my mum did have a strange ITT radio cassette unit that had. Must have been a german thing!

Bear in mind that Krell were misusing 'balanced' for the FPB series back in the 90s. But the rise of the new generation of young headphones lovers does seem to have given the snake oilers a whole new market.

Well the person who used the term "balanced" for the headphone amp wasn't a snake oiler. They just didn't know any better is all. So there was nothing nefarious about it or anything.

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It's sad that such companies can make completely ridiculous claims but it's doubly sad that there will always be some people who just buy them.

It just seems to come down to marketing reaching a large enough number of people which inevitably will include such "useful idiots".
 
"With the above in mind, I have no alternative than to have you banned from the forum.

Bruce A. Brisson Founder and CEO of MIT"

HA! I guess it was inevitable. And he still demonstrates just how clueless he is on the subject with his still yammering on about common mode rejection. All he can do is parrot what he's read on Wikipedia about "balanced."

Enjoy.

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Well Steve, you really hammered your point home. You contradicted their marketing claims so you must be banned.

People sometimes try to argue with me about various claims and topics pertaining to sound reproduction and physics. Never mind that I can actually design, build, and measure the equipment; they put more stock in marketing claims and hearsay. Willful ignorance used to bother me; now I just chuckle.
 
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