Two TC9's, one of which is in a BR while the other that shares the same baffle is open and acts as the tweeter. Single cap between the two. The 3rd of the trio is a subwoofer.
Pretty sounding little system. Right up in the top of my favorite things to listen to in this house. I am 8ft away from them and I listen to them at around 87db in room on average about 6hrs/night since. . . .Nov/Dec.
I have built 4 subs since January. But these little clones have halted my speaker building. I'm waiting to get over them but they just keep singing so nicely that I can't quite put them down.
It is not the squiggly bits, but the smooth bits. The squiggly bits are high enough up in frequency they are easily dealt with by some damping material. The smooth bits are smooth where it matters.
The box simulated is 20cm wide and 30cm deep internally (600cm2), the driver would be equal distance from top/bottom, 30cm internal height. At one end, either top or bottom, there would be a slot port, starting 3cm distance from the rear of the enclosure, 3cm distance from the top of the enclosure and exiting on the front. If built with 12mm ply the external dimensions would be 36.7cm high 22.5cm wide, 32.5cm deep.
so you have heard it or just simulated the sound?
thanks for the help with enclosure, and guidance. Have you heard this particular configuration, or just simulated on paper? What is the low end extension? the high end extension? sorry I can't read graphs. EKG yes but not graphs?
the USA equivilant is? external: 14.45 tall x 8.86 wide, by 12.80 deep? Center driver vertically and horizontally on front baffle, port slot is 1.18 opening on front and across the back the total width of the box internal width?
I like it, but...for more WAF could it be made narrower and make up the volume by adding to the height? I have a 28" monitor and not a ton of space left on either side. Or does baffle width have to be this size due to baffle step consideration's? I have heard that if made too narrow for the driver that it becomes congested and loose airiness, and get a boxy sound? also, I have heard that best to have driver enter at ear hight for best imaging/sound? I think in my chair, on my desk I measured 15.5-16 inches. could build a box cubby hole/ speaker stand I suppose?
I just read about a CBR? which is a small line array on a curve from horizontal to almost vertical on an arc with multiple full range drivers that sounded interesting. Don't know a thing about line array's but that would certainly help with worrying about not enough output from a single driver? I hear there is a problem with arrays called combing? don't know what that is? but woud it mess with the imaging and or dispersion?
thanks for the help with enclosure, and guidance. Have you heard this particular configuration, or just simulated on paper? What is the low end extension? the high end extension? sorry I can't read graphs. EKG yes but not graphs?
the USA equivilant is? external: 14.45 tall x 8.86 wide, by 12.80 deep? Center driver vertically and horizontally on front baffle, port slot is 1.18 opening on front and across the back the total width of the box internal width?
I like it, but...for more WAF could it be made narrower and make up the volume by adding to the height? I have a 28" monitor and not a ton of space left on either side. Or does baffle width have to be this size due to baffle step consideration's? I have heard that if made too narrow for the driver that it becomes congested and loose airiness, and get a boxy sound? also, I have heard that best to have driver enter at ear hight for best imaging/sound? I think in my chair, on my desk I measured 15.5-16 inches. could build a box cubby hole/ speaker stand I suppose?
I just read about a CBR? which is a small line array on a curve from horizontal to almost vertical on an arc with multiple full range drivers that sounded interesting. Don't know a thing about line array's but that would certainly help with worrying about not enough output from a single driver? I hear there is a problem with arrays called combing? don't know what that is? but woud it mess with the imaging and or dispersion?
cool
interesting, but it is too room dependent for me. My desk is in the corner of my room. window in center. also for optimum listening position I would have to sit 2 X r from the speaker. not gonna happen. nice to know about such things tho, thanks for the info! would probably work good for a speaker bar where the tv was mounted in the center of the room?
excursion not to worry?
so if I decided on a 3inch driver of 3watts nominal 6watt peak I wouldn't need to worry if it would play cleanly loud enough? or say 10w-20w, etc.
I don't know what a CGR enclosure is really? What is it? Is it your ufonken side vented box?
Another probably stupid question, the tapered sided enclosure-trapezoidal I think u call it. described as tear dropped shaped, why not make it tear dropped with full radiused front? I get that the front of the speaker has less baffle so less diffraction to deal with, is the tapered sides for same reason? To reduce diffraction? what happens internal to the standing wave that comes from the back of the driver? Is it compressed? then accelerates forward thru hopefully the vents? Interesting concept, would it help direct standing wave to center a "V" shape on the back that is perpendicular to the angled side walls? I don't know, just trying to get it all in and right this last time. So sorry for all the dumb questions.
I don't get it Dave, no worries about excursion limits or spl? I have often reached the excursion limits of my HiVi B3N FR from Zaph audio, it distorts before reaching the limit actually. He states something like you will reach xmax limits with 10watts at 70-80hz signal. So I can not play above 10 watts if used full range. Granted I seldom run it that loud for normal listening levels, but when I wanna get jiggy with it I would like a bit more decibles before distortion starts. Also it is not a very efficient driver, something like 82sensitivity then the added filter components lower it some more I would guess?
so if I decided on a 3inch driver of 3watts nominal 6watt peak I wouldn't need to worry if it would play cleanly loud enough? or say 10w-20w, etc.
I don't know what a CGR enclosure is really? What is it? Is it your ufonken side vented box?
Another probably stupid question, the tapered sided enclosure-trapezoidal I think u call it. described as tear dropped shaped, why not make it tear dropped with full radiused front? I get that the front of the speaker has less baffle so less diffraction to deal with, is the tapered sides for same reason? To reduce diffraction? what happens internal to the standing wave that comes from the back of the driver? Is it compressed? then accelerates forward thru hopefully the vents? Interesting concept, would it help direct standing wave to center a "V" shape on the back that is perpendicular to the angled side walls? I don't know, just trying to get it all in and right this last time. So sorry for all the dumb questions.
I have heard this "configuration", but not with this particular driver.
It is a relatively basic bass-reflex with slot port and some extra attention to detail. It is more or less exactly the same as the boxes I made for my setup only smaller, 2 bass boxes per channel with one 15" in each + 1 sealed top with 15" FR unit. To me this bass sounds better than any dipole setup I have experienced. It began with me loathing bass reflex, trying to understand why on earth people made bass reflex boxes, figured out it can actually sound quite good.
It will work very well for you even without subs, response is flat to 50hz, before rolling off. If you are lucky you will get in-room response to maybe 38hz, with the correct placement. If you want optimal angling I would suggest just using a small unobtrusive piece of wood under the front or rear to get the angle right, but these drivers might sound better just aiming flat into the room.
It sounds like you are over-complicating things. I give my vote to making it relatively basic, and simple, to better the odds in your favor. 🙂
Get this project sounding excellent, and spend some extra time on surface treatment to make the boxes look nice, and you may be lucky enough she'll be more patient with you at a later point in time.
It is a relatively basic bass-reflex with slot port and some extra attention to detail. It is more or less exactly the same as the boxes I made for my setup only smaller, 2 bass boxes per channel with one 15" in each + 1 sealed top with 15" FR unit. To me this bass sounds better than any dipole setup I have experienced. It began with me loathing bass reflex, trying to understand why on earth people made bass reflex boxes, figured out it can actually sound quite good.
It will work very well for you even without subs, response is flat to 50hz, before rolling off. If you are lucky you will get in-room response to maybe 38hz, with the correct placement. If you want optimal angling I would suggest just using a small unobtrusive piece of wood under the front or rear to get the angle right, but these drivers might sound better just aiming flat into the room.
It sounds like you are over-complicating things. I give my vote to making it relatively basic, and simple, to better the odds in your favor. 🙂
Get this project sounding excellent, and spend some extra time on surface treatment to make the boxes look nice, and you may be lucky enough she'll be more patient with you at a later point in time.
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thanks Mann
ok, that is a pretty good understanding of me at this moment, overthinking/overcomplicating things. I just read a white paper on line arrays-talk about complicated! sounds good tho if implemented well.
any thoughts on slightly narrower/taller? I get the comment about angling toward ear level, is it that width is optimized for driver breathability?sound output? or some wiggly room without destroying sound?
Possible good news-grandkids getting new house in a month. Giving them a desktop computer for their new study. SO, THEY MUST HAVE SPEAKERS AND AMP RIGHT!
so I can build two different pairs and pick what I like the best, right!!??
ok, that is a pretty good understanding of me at this moment, overthinking/overcomplicating things. I just read a white paper on line arrays-talk about complicated! sounds good tho if implemented well.
any thoughts on slightly narrower/taller? I get the comment about angling toward ear level, is it that width is optimized for driver breathability?sound output? or some wiggly room without destroying sound?
Possible good news-grandkids getting new house in a month. Giving them a desktop computer for their new study. SO, THEY MUST HAVE SPEAKERS AND AMP RIGHT!
so I can build two different pairs and pick what I like the best, right!!??
If you want a smaller box better make a sealed box and cross over to some woofer. But the dimensions on this one are not very flexible. It will sound very good on it's own though, does not require a woofer.
Faital 3fe25 is pretty good though, can just get a small sealed box for that and be happy, but then you would really want to have a sub to go with.
Edit:
You said you had some parts from the linkwitz build? Seas fu10rb is very high up on my list of nice drivers.
Faital 3fe25 is pretty good though, can just get a small sealed box for that and be happy, but then you would really want to have a sub to go with.
Edit:
You said you had some parts from the linkwitz build? Seas fu10rb is very high up on my list of nice drivers.
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hey Mann
I have stated from the beginning that I have 8"sub to integrate with the desktop speakers. you must have missed it. thanks.I will measure to see if I have the real estate for 8" wide speakers when I get home tonight.
I have stated from the beginning that I have 8"sub to integrate with the desktop speakers. you must have missed it. thanks.I will measure to see if I have the real estate for 8" wide speakers when I get home tonight.
Did not miss it.
Having the option available does not mean that you have to use it.
Seas FU10RB + subs is a very easy win, but the Faital 3FE25 is also really nice in the same configuration.
That 5" tang band can sing very well by itself, no need for extra help.
Having the option available does not mean that you have to use it.
Seas FU10RB + subs is a very easy win, but the Faital 3FE25 is also really nice in the same configuration.
That 5" tang band can sing very well by itself, no need for extra help.
You won’t be using a 3” that low if you have a woofer. The HiVi is very iffecicient (81 dB), so 10 w for it is less than 2w for something like Alpair 7.3/A6p/A5.2. Nearfield even a watt (or 2) is taking you into hearing damage levels. A 4” or so is ideal for your needs.
Typically these filter components are used to deal with HF resonances which will only affect the amplifier (bt screwing with the speaker impedance). BSC will affect overall efficiency, but careful design in you situation should make that moot… unless you like bass heavy.
Yes (sort of)… Classic Golden Ratio. The rectangular box that allows driver placement on any of 5 sides. It is a deciSize enclosure, microSize enclosures are much smaller. Visualization from the FF125wk CGR which extends the concept to front firing vents on all orientations.
There are no stupid questions. Olsen showed that champhers are near as effective as curves. They are hard enuff to cut on the trapezoids… but the equivalent round-over is something like 5” diameter, that is a real tough challenge and requires some pretty heavy duty tools which takes it out of the realm of almost all diyers.You can be sure that i have thot about it, and have provided drawings (or changes) to a number of people whol what to put a more approachable roundover — althou only for thr rectangular full-on miniOnkens). Besides, we like how they look. They are sort of steam-punk.
That is not true. The baflfe width just effects where the diffraction effects occur. At high frequencies you have to worry about edge diffraction, at LF you worry about bafflee step diffraction, inbetween there is a transition from one to the other.Furthe the box shape has an effect on ripple at the transition around the baffle step. While simplistic, Olson's work is seminal, and very useful.
One has to worry about these. Non-parallel walls help a tiny bit, but the most important tool is the damping in the box. Side walls too close will tend to exacerbate the issue.
Making a much more complex set of shapes on the inside of the box can make a difference, it increases fabrication difficulty substantially. The B&W DM302 is the classic example — one can only guess how much the die to do this would cost… 3D printing woud make one-offs practical.
We dis a simplified variation on this in the air cavity of out Maeshowe horn… you can see that in this post/thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...air-cavity-pre-chamber-level.html#post2688479 a picture of the end result:
dave
ok, first pick is selected w5-2143 in a 14-1/2 tall x 8-3/4" wide x 12.8" deep slot ported enclosure out of 12 mm stock or 1/2". pros good bass response flat to 50hz.
thanks Mann I could also try in another box as I can do boxes quite easy if anyone cares to give suggestions/dimensions, etc.
JUST NEED ONE MORE DESIGN FOR COMPARISON AND I WILL PICK THE ONE I LIKE MOST< AND GIVE THE GRANDKIDS THE OTHER>thanks for your help (Just put 2 w5-2143 in my cart at PE, I also snuck in a pair of tc9's in the cart
thanks Mann I could also try in another box as I can do boxes quite easy if anyone cares to give suggestions/dimensions, etc.
JUST NEED ONE MORE DESIGN FOR COMPARISON AND I WILL PICK THE ONE I LIKE MOST< AND GIVE THE GRANDKIDS THE OTHER>thanks for your help (Just put 2 w5-2143 in my cart at PE, I also snuck in a pair of tc9's in the cart
wow Dave that was super nice of you to explain these questions in such an easy to understand way. THank you. I am not married to the above posted box design. I am sure the outcome would be pleasant enough but wonder if such a simplified design as a simple br would be getting the most out of the driver?
I am up for a challenging enclosure. I have the w5-2143 in my cart, the TC9 4 ohm version, is that the right one, and I suppose I will try the pluvia 7 to compare to the w5. the TC9 is because it gets so much press and is cheap enough. or should I get 4 and try the karlsonator duo tc9 build to see which of the three I like the best?
I am doing the comparison thing with two 8inch subs this weekend. One is the Triska sub with 2 passive radiators, and one is same dvc 8" sealed. I think sealed will work best, but others are predict dual PR's will be better? paint finish just dried last night.
I know there was only to be ONE, right! "too long I've been thirsty and unable to quench it" lol
I am up for a challenging enclosure. I have the w5-2143 in my cart, the TC9 4 ohm version, is that the right one, and I suppose I will try the pluvia 7 to compare to the w5. the TC9 is because it gets so much press and is cheap enough. or should I get 4 and try the karlsonator duo tc9 build to see which of the three I like the best?
I am doing the comparison thing with two 8inch subs this weekend. One is the Triska sub with 2 passive radiators, and one is same dvc 8" sealed. I think sealed will work best, but others are predict dual PR's will be better? paint finish just dried last night.
I know there was only to be ONE, right! "too long I've been thirsty and unable to quench it" lol
all those geometric shapes end up at about the same +6db BS eventually. Is the best the sphere shape? smoothest. I made a pair of bedroom speakers by taking two cheap play balls and covering with paper mache' and plaster and fiberglass and put 4" coaxials in them and they sounded pretty darn good. wonder what sized ball I would need for the w5? basketball or beach ball sized I suppose? hey I wonder if hung from ceiling on chains if they would swing with sound pushing them- might be difernt like Lesley sound from long ago, lol.
Almost always quality plywood is european sourced and is 12mm even if called ½”. Before cutting take a micrometer to your material and adjust for the actual size.
I have the same take on typical BR as KaffiMann, the deep slot vent adds R to the vent, exactly what the miniOnkens do to tame the BR.
dave
same reason i bought 4. I was very dissappointed. I haven’t even been able to give them all away… the 1 pair i did was th eonly prize left in th elast diyFEST raffle draw.
TG9 variant is way better.
dave
The take away should be the shape of the transition.
Subsequent research has shown that it is a teardrop. A half sphere on the frony that tapers away at the back.
dave
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