i probably will too, especially since i have all the parts needed in my parts bin and just need some TX, but i'm tempted by AR2s. I will probably build it up with a linear psu and watch for opc's measured results. the issues presented by debugging something like this is something i hadnt considered
Interested in Redesigned switcher
Since cost is a factor and time is not (for me), I am interested in a redesign of a Connex supply.
(Payment sent. Thank you, Owen!)
Since cost is a factor and time is not (for me), I am interested in a redesign of a Connex supply.
(Payment sent. Thank you, Owen!)
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Payment sent!
I'm interested in performance vs cost ratio, time is not very critical so i will wait for some of opc's measurements before deciding on the final solution. But AP2s supply (http://www.audiopower.it/) does look good but the price is quite heavy compared to the connex supplies (Connexelectronic).
Debugging an SMPS doesn't sound like fun but i assume that the high quality ones should work for quite some time without interference.
I'm interested in performance vs cost ratio, time is not very critical so i will wait for some of opc's measurements before deciding on the final solution. But AP2s supply (http://www.audiopower.it/) does look good but the price is quite heavy compared to the connex supplies (Connexelectronic).
Debugging an SMPS doesn't sound like fun but i assume that the high quality ones should work for quite some time without interference.
yeah thats true and lets face it any truly modern system is getting a little difficult to debug due to being SMD and particularly proprietary stuff, but thats not a reason to not go SMD IMO. one assumes being a closed system it is covered by a decent warranty and given there is built in short circuit/fault protection and shutdown, it should last quite some time in a home situation where its not being overly stressed. where is a link to pricing on the audiopower stuff or do i have to email? and will we be getting a bulk discount if we get a few of us together? either way, if its not fully regulated on the main outputs i'm not particularly interested, so that rules out at least the current offering from Connexelectronic.
the frequency of audiophile descriptions at the audiopower website is a bit concerning
the frequency of audiophile descriptions at the audiopower website is a bit concerning
@evette, the GB is closed at the moment but there should be a few boards left that will be released one this GB is over, keep an eye out. Owen mentioned this a short while back.
I like working with SMD but poking around a high power switching supply where everything is nice and pact does sound like a bad idea... Still my plan is to mount everything in a box and within that time the warranty should be available and after that no major stress should occur so it should last for a long time (i hope).
There is no price on the audiopower supply discussed here but the others are around 170-210 € a piece and you need one per channel if i didn't misunderstand.
Power Supplies
The connex supples come in around 80-100 $ (SMPS500R/SMPS800R) and can be used for multiple channels. That is for me a much more appealing solution in terms of price, then its just to hope for performance.
Note that these are not the final prices in any way but should give an indication...
The connex supply discussed here might be more expensive due to he discussion about shielding and higher quality components but i guess that the price change should not be dramatic.
Approximately how much will a good linear supply cost (with separate supply for the LME)?
I like working with SMD but poking around a high power switching supply where everything is nice and pact does sound like a bad idea... Still my plan is to mount everything in a box and within that time the warranty should be available and after that no major stress should occur so it should last for a long time (i hope).
There is no price on the audiopower supply discussed here but the others are around 170-210 € a piece and you need one per channel if i didn't misunderstand.
Power Supplies
The connex supples come in around 80-100 $ (SMPS500R/SMPS800R) and can be used for multiple channels. That is for me a much more appealing solution in terms of price, then its just to hope for performance.
Note that these are not the final prices in any way but should give an indication...
The connex supply discussed here might be more expensive due to he discussion about shielding and higher quality components but i guess that the price change should not be dramatic.
Approximately how much will a good linear supply cost (with separate supply for the LME)?
indeed SMD FTW, but troubleshooting an 800W SMD SMPS? hmmm... at 1 per channel at 200EU for a power supply that is probably a factor of 5 too large for my purposes by that point, when one of the good points is to be efficient? i'm not up for spending $1000 on my 4 channels i'm afraid. hmmm.. yes the connex are much more attractive there, but even cheap units you dont want are too expensive. a linear supply for something like 150wpc could be had for <100 per channel including 40kuf 300va + 25va (front end) and a reasonable bridge rectifier. you can obviously spend more than that on custom trannies, high grade EVOX RIFA caps and a CLCRC instead of just CRCRC, with the last C being a large film cap shunt and you are then in the audiopower price range and above; as well as being huge. but being a good diyer i have all but the inductors and trandsformers in the parts bin, including the rifa caps and the transformer for the front end, which we could get the price down on quite well with a GB.
speaking of which, any talk of GB's in this thread never seems to get off the ground, shouldnt we really start talking about that? should i start a thread in the GB area? or is EVERYONE hanging on the PSU testing results? i suppose thats probably wise
speaking of which, any talk of GB's in this thread never seems to get off the ground, shouldnt we really start talking about that? should i start a thread in the GB area? or is EVERYONE hanging on the PSU testing results? i suppose thats probably wise
I'm in for a GB on the power supply but first i would like to see some more measurements first (especially of connex supply) since i'm in no rush i would like to wait. But the audiopower supplies are most likely above my league.
I'm aiming for around 100W per channel into 8 Ω and have a bit of a margin for lower ohmic speakers as well (margin is cost dependent). I need a new set of speakers and i want an amp that can handle most speakers to a reasonable volume so i don̈́t have to be picky there.
My plan for the supply was to set up a CRC solution (if a transformer is used) since i imagine that would reduce the noise and ripple a bit more but not be a dramatic increase in cost. Of course a smaller front end, my guess is that this should be okay with just a cap after the rectifier due to the regulators or should i aim for CRC here as well?
Regarding transformer and caps i will probably not go for the exotic versions, due to cost again...
I'm aiming for around 100W per channel into 8 Ω and have a bit of a margin for lower ohmic speakers as well (margin is cost dependent). I need a new set of speakers and i want an amp that can handle most speakers to a reasonable volume so i don̈́t have to be picky there.
My plan for the supply was to set up a CRC solution (if a transformer is used) since i imagine that would reduce the noise and ripple a bit more but not be a dramatic increase in cost. Of course a smaller front end, my guess is that this should be okay with just a cap after the rectifier due to the regulators or should i aim for CRC here as well?
Regarding transformer and caps i will probably not go for the exotic versions, due to cost again...
this should probably say something more like bad DIY bowerbird.
yeah i had planned CRCLC perhaps if i can spare the voltage and even considered CRCRegC using the regulator/follower schematic from the F5X since i have the matched fets already and will build the wire probably before i think about the F5X. i dont really need more than 75wpc since i'm only driving single drivers in an active/digital 2 way XO with the woofers only really being mid/woofers, but i want to have it ready for bass duties if i go 3 way, so i will build it accordingly.
for the front end i'm looking at all sorts of options since the current is low, but i have opc's regulator for the front end to start with. i might play with shunts, i might play with some other discrete formats, but given the somewhat high PSRR of the lme its probably more academic to do anything better than the LT3X7 (i'll use lt1085 here)
as to your question, so you werent planning on regulating the front end?
for caps i have some 15kuf evox/rifa PEH169 but if i shoot for higher voltage I have some 33kuf nippon chemicon
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did you refer to me? In that case sorry for being unclear, but i intend to use the LM317/337 for the front end (or equivalent). Thats why i'm probably just going for a simple rectifier/cap after the transformer for the front end and leave the rest of the ripple for the reg.
But i guess that the regulator won't be happy or very useful for the mosfets due to the power consumption hence the CRC solution to get a bit more filter effect. An inductor and another cap could be an option depending on cost.
But all this depends on the price and how well the SMPS does.
Could you link to the F5X thing? Did a quick search (maybe to quick) and i couldn't find a schematic for that.
Hi all,
I read your latest comments and I think I need to clarify some things.
The SMPS in question (DPS-600) is the candidate for this amplifier LME49830. (other models on shop,are not suitable).
Just this model is not on the shop Audiopower.
The company wants to use it for a 450w rms mono block mosfet power (high-end finished product).
I thought that with simple modification (replacing lm317/337), with other LTxx, you can have the outputs /-75V regulated and well filtered.
In the laboratory I've tested this version with our mospower 4R 450w. (HB300 version without on-board SMPS)
I understand that it makes no sense to say that it's amazing the power that you are listening, especially in all the sounds that are fast. first surprise is at 30-50w power range. (The linear psu, the voltage varies, creating ripples at the audio frequency, this is perceived as a soft sound in quick attacks, such as percussion or other attacks of some musical instruments). this is reason of develop DPS-600 rips.
I agree that "Opc" performs measurements and listening tests, this is independent of purchase.
I spoke with the AudioPower, it may be possible, create a shopping list reserved for DIY and get a special price.
An important consideration: as you can see, this SMPS uses new parts and excellent quality, then cost of production is not comparable as others.
A product, especially if it is new, is under a lot of tests before being put on the market. Sometimes even for 6 months a year. So do not think that they are experiments.
As I have said, this may offer new audio performances, not achievable even with linear psu. sorry for these words, but it is simply a truth demonstrable.
Some special features of the DPS-600:
AC Line regulation (190V-260V) = 20mV on DC output.
Ripple at 10Amp = 100mV rms (100Hz)
Repetitive peaks = 16Amp
Spurius at output DC -85dB
Response time = 150nS form (100mA to 10Amp)
Protections = therm;shortcut;overload (delayed)
I/O optoisolated pins for fast break (from amplifier fault) and remote control.
Dimension: 184x74x32mm (ref to pcb)
DPS-600 is complete of alluminum frame as photo.
UPS (fast package) collect for Monday 9/01/2012. think deliver in 2 days.
Regards
Roberto
I read your latest comments and I think I need to clarify some things.
The SMPS in question (DPS-600) is the candidate for this amplifier LME49830. (other models on shop,are not suitable).
Just this model is not on the shop Audiopower.
The company wants to use it for a 450w rms mono block mosfet power (high-end finished product).
I thought that with simple modification (replacing lm317/337), with other LTxx, you can have the outputs /-75V regulated and well filtered.
In the laboratory I've tested this version with our mospower 4R 450w. (HB300 version without on-board SMPS)
I understand that it makes no sense to say that it's amazing the power that you are listening, especially in all the sounds that are fast. first surprise is at 30-50w power range. (The linear psu, the voltage varies, creating ripples at the audio frequency, this is perceived as a soft sound in quick attacks, such as percussion or other attacks of some musical instruments). this is reason of develop DPS-600 rips.
I agree that "Opc" performs measurements and listening tests, this is independent of purchase.
I spoke with the AudioPower, it may be possible, create a shopping list reserved for DIY and get a special price.
An important consideration: as you can see, this SMPS uses new parts and excellent quality, then cost of production is not comparable as others.
A product, especially if it is new, is under a lot of tests before being put on the market. Sometimes even for 6 months a year. So do not think that they are experiments.
As I have said, this may offer new audio performances, not achievable even with linear psu. sorry for these words, but it is simply a truth demonstrable.
Some special features of the DPS-600:
AC Line regulation (190V-260V) = 20mV on DC output.
Ripple at 10Amp = 100mV rms (100Hz)
Repetitive peaks = 16Amp
Spurius at output DC -85dB
Response time = 150nS form (100mA to 10Amp)
Protections = therm;shortcut;overload (delayed)
I/O optoisolated pins for fast break (from amplifier fault) and remote control.
Dimension: 184x74x32mm (ref to pcb)
DPS-600 is complete of alluminum frame as photo.
UPS (fast package) collect for Monday 9/01/2012. think deliver in 2 days.
Regards
Roberto
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The fact that only one module can be driven by each dps600 is a problem for me. I'm using my amps for a 3 way active setup and buying 6 power supplies is not cost effective regardless of the performance.
I still don't really understand why one ps can't power 2 amps.
Sent from my Xperia arc using Tapatalk
I still don't really understand why one ps can't power 2 amps.
Sent from my Xperia arc using Tapatalk
@ QRikard:
yes i was referring to you; sorry for being vague. yes if you plan to regulate the front end power, there is no need to add a CRC filter before the regulator IMO, the reg will eat a good part of the ripple and i would think the psrr of the LME will take care of the rest. i would probably look at a cap multiplier as a prereg before the reg if anything. its funny that AR2 mentions using an LT based reg for the main outputs, its something i considered, using a regulator to set the voltage and then following it, or using the newish regulator controllers from LT that use a chip to regulate a mosfet power output stage, mostly used for low voltage high current applications in computers
as for the F5X its by Patrick/EUVL an X'd version of the Pass F5. the pcbs for the regulator are not available to the general public as yet and maybe not ever, but the schematic for the amp and regulator has been published in the thread. i'm not willing to publish it here and any attempt to GB PCBs will not be supported by Patrick understandably, so anyone wishing to make the regs will have to do so point to point, or make their own pcbs and not sell or distribute them.
@ Mark:
it probably cant power 2 amps because of the dynamic sense/feedback function, as to do that it would have to close a feedback loop around 2 amps and somehow keep up with the dynamic load of 2 different signals. agreed the quality seems good, but unless the price is drastically reduced for a group price, its simply not feasible to use for multichannel systems like you, myself and quite a few others are planning to build with these modules. even at 150eu each x 6, the power supply will probably cost more than the rest of the cost for each amp channel including heatsink and wont exactly be compact. these amps provide the opportunity to build a very compact, high performance multichannel system for a reasonable sum; a pair of active 3 ways could be built for roughly 1200 plus casework, perhaps less. using the power supply mentioned, we will spend that on the power supplies alone.
I do understand that the quality is there in the product, so some will still go for it if building a statement system. I myself might add them further down the line, maybe starting with just the mids using them, but its too rich for my blood at this point, especially given i'm at this point building enough fully class A amps for my 2 ways (4 balanced mono) and will compare the result before deciding what to do with the spares ie. building more speakers or selling the amps.
@ AP2: i dont think anyone is questioning the quality of the product, or the work that goes into producing them. All the products on the site look well designed and well made, as one would expect from your part of the world. Your site appears to characterise the modules quite well objectively as well as the audiophile descriptions, maybe i'm too sensitive to the flowery lingo, but i tend to switch off and not read it, while being subconsciously turned off the product. A segment of the market certainly buys their amps based on such descriptions and similar reviews, so I understand why its there, but i dont think the people in this thread are necessarily that audience. the members here will mostly rely on the measurements and feedback given by opc and its admirable that you were in favor of this.
yes i was referring to you; sorry for being vague. yes if you plan to regulate the front end power, there is no need to add a CRC filter before the regulator IMO, the reg will eat a good part of the ripple and i would think the psrr of the LME will take care of the rest. i would probably look at a cap multiplier as a prereg before the reg if anything. its funny that AR2 mentions using an LT based reg for the main outputs, its something i considered, using a regulator to set the voltage and then following it, or using the newish regulator controllers from LT that use a chip to regulate a mosfet power output stage, mostly used for low voltage high current applications in computers
as for the F5X its by Patrick/EUVL an X'd version of the Pass F5. the pcbs for the regulator are not available to the general public as yet and maybe not ever, but the schematic for the amp and regulator has been published in the thread. i'm not willing to publish it here and any attempt to GB PCBs will not be supported by Patrick understandably, so anyone wishing to make the regs will have to do so point to point, or make their own pcbs and not sell or distribute them.
@ Mark:
it probably cant power 2 amps because of the dynamic sense/feedback function, as to do that it would have to close a feedback loop around 2 amps and somehow keep up with the dynamic load of 2 different signals. agreed the quality seems good, but unless the price is drastically reduced for a group price, its simply not feasible to use for multichannel systems like you, myself and quite a few others are planning to build with these modules. even at 150eu each x 6, the power supply will probably cost more than the rest of the cost for each amp channel including heatsink and wont exactly be compact. these amps provide the opportunity to build a very compact, high performance multichannel system for a reasonable sum; a pair of active 3 ways could be built for roughly 1200 plus casework, perhaps less. using the power supply mentioned, we will spend that on the power supplies alone.
I do understand that the quality is there in the product, so some will still go for it if building a statement system. I myself might add them further down the line, maybe starting with just the mids using them, but its too rich for my blood at this point, especially given i'm at this point building enough fully class A amps for my 2 ways (4 balanced mono) and will compare the result before deciding what to do with the spares ie. building more speakers or selling the amps.
@ AP2: i dont think anyone is questioning the quality of the product, or the work that goes into producing them. All the products on the site look well designed and well made, as one would expect from your part of the world. Your site appears to characterise the modules quite well objectively as well as the audiophile descriptions, maybe i'm too sensitive to the flowery lingo, but i tend to switch off and not read it, while being subconsciously turned off the product. A segment of the market certainly buys their amps based on such descriptions and similar reviews, so I understand why its there, but i dont think the people in this thread are necessarily that audience. the members here will mostly rely on the measurements and feedback given by opc and its admirable that you were in favor of this.
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Hi,
@ qusp:I totally agree with you and would be impractical in the case of multi-way (not only for the cost).
if I knew before printing pcb, "opc", I could work together to design a special on-board controller. attached to the main DC, can be adjusted with good ripple rejection, but keeping the relationship with main dc Proportion. then the difference would always be dynamically 15V up from main. maybe it's complicated to explain, and it's too late.
Thanks for the explanation on the feedback, yes, 2 amp current, false sensing in this psu. this is so.
I apologize for my English.
I think it will not be easy, supplies 6 power amps with bias current 300mA, more absorbing when he plays. (I'm referring to an SMPS) which must also be clean... (just this is a real..problem)
However, I keep the agreement with "OPC" and send the DPS-600 Monday.
PS: is clear that the quality you see, I just wanted to explain to some people, that can not make a comparison just on price.
Regards
Roberto
@ qusp:I totally agree with you and would be impractical in the case of multi-way (not only for the cost).
if I knew before printing pcb, "opc", I could work together to design a special on-board controller. attached to the main DC, can be adjusted with good ripple rejection, but keeping the relationship with main dc Proportion. then the difference would always be dynamically 15V up from main. maybe it's complicated to explain, and it's too late.
Thanks for the explanation on the feedback, yes, 2 amp current, false sensing in this psu. this is so.
I apologize for my English.
I think it will not be easy, supplies 6 power amps with bias current 300mA, more absorbing when he plays. (I'm referring to an SMPS) which must also be clean... (just this is a real..problem)
However, I keep the agreement with "OPC" and send the DPS-600 Monday.
PS: is clear that the quality you see, I just wanted to explain to some people, that can not make a comparison just on price.
Regards
Roberto
In case anyone is interested, I just posted the last project for at least the next year here:
The Wire - Low Power Ultra High Perfromance (LPUHP) 16W Power Amplifier
If you don't need much power, but want the absolute best in terms of performance, it would be hard to do any better than this.
After these kits ship out, things will likely go quiet for the next year while I work on something a little more involved. In the meantime though, this really is something special to tide you over!
Cheers,
Owen
The Wire - Low Power Ultra High Perfromance (LPUHP) 16W Power Amplifier
If you don't need much power, but want the absolute best in terms of performance, it would be hard to do any better than this.
After these kits ship out, things will likely go quiet for the next year while I work on something a little more involved. In the meantime though, this really is something special to tide you over!
Cheers,
Owen
Thread opc refers to is here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/soli...gh-perfromance-lpuhp-16w-power-amplifier.html