Some 1"s can pretty comfortably go lower than 1k, too- I specifically use the JBL 2426 for its midrange capabilities, but it's not a great option to EQ for a 2 way, the top octave is well damped but not clean (so if you EQ it up it sounds bad). I use a supertweeter but the 2374 horn if you can find them are quite impressive for anything 1" throat, I can actually very comfortably cross at 700hz with the right driver (like the 2426). Extended low frequency capability and the smooth profile with good directivity (not really CD in the top octave, duh) makes it a real winner. Even when you're not crossing low, extra bandwidth at the low end helps ensure all frequencies behave well (30"W mouth good)
Badman,
I can see your processor is a dbx. What are your woofers? Paper, no ribs, M115-8As? Have you combined two horns back to back ? I see the lower one is upside down (downside up). Maybe you're trying to undo the asymmetry of 2374.
I can see your processor is a dbx. What are your woofers? Paper, no ribs, M115-8As? Have you combined two horns back to back ? I see the lower one is upside down (downside up). Maybe you're trying to undo the asymmetry of 2374.
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The woofers are BD15- underhung high efficiency low-mms 16 ohm dealies from BD-Design. They are among the flattest cone transducers I've measured with a high end with narrowing beamwidth but flat up to near 5k- without notable breakup, like the also excellent and much less efficient JBL 123A/2213.
The horns are arranged that way to maximize pattern overlap between the two- it's a supertweeter on top. There's very good overlap at about 6' out from the baffle face, and the driver selection and a bit of tilt provide reasonable physicial time alignment (the 2426 has an extremely long throat and is the lower driver, closer to ear level typically). There is comb filtering but not bad at all.
I have not run these horns bipole or dipole, as I have other more appropriate components when I'm craving a little more ambient sound.
The horns are arranged that way to maximize pattern overlap between the two- it's a supertweeter on top. There's very good overlap at about 6' out from the baffle face, and the driver selection and a bit of tilt provide reasonable physicial time alignment (the 2426 has an extremely long throat and is the lower driver, closer to ear level typically). There is comb filtering but not bad at all.
I have not run these horns bipole or dipole, as I have other more appropriate components when I'm craving a little more ambient sound.
Nice Badman, and a good example of the size needed to attend to the issues that are compromised when crossing around 700Hz with a smaller waveguide.
Yes, badman, a very nice job with using inexpensive horns and wide baffles.
Just thinking about how it would have been if it were somehow possible to merge the two horns (like the mids in 3632 etc.).
Just thinking about how it would have been if it were somehow possible to merge the two horns (like the mids in 3632 etc.).
@badman, the horns look impressive, but beyond even my acceptance factor. Too immersive for my room.
Don't shy away from size if you want horns, it directly relates to LF loading (depth) and LF pattern control (mouth size). In horn world, bigger is better.
I want 3 foot horns in my living room too! And maybe I will have them someday, along with a bigger living room. But don't let the biggest and baddest horn system be the enemy of the good...
IMO a good 1" wide-pattern constant directivity horn + 12" pro woofer + sub is going to deliver say 80% of whatever sonic merit is ever going to be found in the "HiFi PA" approach, and do it affordably, and not overwhelm your living space. My advice is to build this architecture with decent components (+1 on the polymer CD diaphragm) and use active amplification/DSP.
You will have a solid system and the tools to go bigger and badder for the next build (logically a unity/synergy IMHO.) But you (and all your of friends) may be enjoying this basic "econo PA" system for some time yet.
IMO a good 1" wide-pattern constant directivity horn + 12" pro woofer + sub is going to deliver say 80% of whatever sonic merit is ever going to be found in the "HiFi PA" approach, and do it affordably, and not overwhelm your living space. My advice is to build this architecture with decent components (+1 on the polymer CD diaphragm) and use active amplification/DSP.
You will have a solid system and the tools to go bigger and badder for the next build (logically a unity/synergy IMHO.) But you (and all your of friends) may be enjoying this basic "econo PA" system for some time yet.
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Definitely agree, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! I never said this was a viable system for a living space- I'm lucky to have a finished basement that serves a few purposes- utility room/workshop, laundry room, office, and listening room. Upstairs it's much more modest.
The 5 amps for 2 channels thing also isn't terribly spouse friendly lol.
The nice thing about the giant system though is that it hides the subs (mostly) and 2 other systems behind it -making it look like there aren't way too many speakers, when really....
The 5 amps for 2 channels thing also isn't terribly spouse friendly lol.
The nice thing about the giant system though is that it hides the subs (mostly) and 2 other systems behind it -making it look like there aren't way too many speakers, when really....
The passive XO is at about 3500hz, it's an opportunity for refinement as it's currently a simple setup that wants some love. A slight tilt is applied for time alignment but really it's not a big issue. The 2426 has a natural mass falloff above 4k and the little ring radiator doesn't want to reach low at all, so they kind of play nice. By 6' from the baffle anything over 30" in the room has good coverage. The width is misleading on these horns- the aspect ratio is not extreme and the vertical pattern defined by the horn is about 12" tall BEFORE the mouth roundover. Because the drivers are further back on the larger horns, they have already developed a pretty robust vertical pattern size to work with by the mouth. The overlap area probably doesn't maximally overlap for a good 20' if you wanted to be obnoxious with an energy analysis, but most of the pattern is overlapped by 6'.
18sound as usual make us a present
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
1 inch 1.6khz recommended crossover
titanium diaphragm
and pet suspension\
specifically designed for high quality applications.
for some time i used celestion 1430\25
they are aluminum with pet suspension but they are quiet budged
18 must be much better
Eighteen Sound - Professional loudspeakers
1 inch 1.6khz recommended crossover
titanium diaphragm
and pet suspension\
specifically designed for high quality applications.
for some time i used celestion 1430\25
they are aluminum with pet suspension but they are quiet budged
18 must be much better
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I was very impressed with the sound of the Eminence ASD1001 when I heard them in an Eminence H290 horn. The larger horn really does help smooth out the lower end of the tweeter compared to several smaller horns I've tried. I listen almost exclusively at low volume levels, they work fine for that.
The ASD1001 is a fine driver (for the money) and can be flattened with EQ (I own these). However, the 1.2kHz resonance (and higher crossover) makes it difficult to pair the driver with larger woofers of 10" and above. Nevertheless, I think it's a very good choice above 4-5kHz (even at higher power) in a 3-way.