An interesting output buffer has been posted here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41562&highlight=
It's has been used in Mark Levinson more recent preamps and DACs (also in ML31.6 DAC) and sounds pretty good, as I'm using it in a preamp myself.
It's has been used in Mark Levinson more recent preamps and DACs (also in ML31.6 DAC) and sounds pretty good, as I'm using it in a preamp myself.
BTW, in an AC powered version, I'm also using fairly big transformer (48VA), considering the ouput stage is passive.
The fuse is soldered directly to the board, whole thing fits in 2 x 3 aluminum tubing.
The fuse is soldered directly to the board, whole thing fits in 2 x 3 aluminum tubing.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Regarding the active output stage, well, it definitely depends on a system, yet so far, I didn't observe any inconveniences or degradations because of using passive I/V conversion and no output buffer. My comparisons with other DACs with active outputs, show absolutely no advantage (ML35, AckdAc, and TDA1541 with Pedja stage were compared, for instance). I noticed though, that none of those stages offered the degree of purity and harmonic correctness a properly chosen passive resistors will offer.
On the other hand, I like to keep the interconnects from a DAC short (8" or so) as the 1M digital cable from transport (Illuminations D-60 in my case) provides enough freedom to place the DAC conveniently. The preamp is active.
On the other hand, I like to keep the interconnects from a DAC short (8" or so) as the 1M digital cable from transport (Illuminations D-60 in my case) provides enough freedom to place the DAC conveniently. The preamp is active.
Nice work as always Peter.
Are those Siemans caps still available? I've tried Multicap RTX,BG N's,PIO, ICW,Ansar,M-cap, Evox SMR,Audyn plus and Audyn KP-SN but not the MKV's yet
BTW, thanks again for the AN8005 & 10n ERO😉
Are those Siemans caps still available? I've tried Multicap RTX,BG N's,PIO, ICW,Ansar,M-cap, Evox SMR,Audyn plus and Audyn KP-SN but not the MKV's yet
BTW, thanks again for the AN8005 & 10n ERO😉
I'm not sure, but they might be surplus now only.
I tried MIT RTX, Jensen copper foil, Hovlands, Wonder Caps, BG N, Infini Cap, Kimber cap, Ultratone silver cap, and few other. While BG N was superior to most mentioned here (I like it over Jensen copper foil for instance), Siemens MKV is nicer, with better resolution in highs and better defined bass, and overall cleaner sounding. It doesn't have that "exotic" coloration, the other caps have, so presentation is more natural. It is still not the best grade of MKV. I couldn't find the other ones though.
PS: Those blue ERO are my first choice for input coupling now 😉
I tried MIT RTX, Jensen copper foil, Hovlands, Wonder Caps, BG N, Infini Cap, Kimber cap, Ultratone silver cap, and few other. While BG N was superior to most mentioned here (I like it over Jensen copper foil for instance), Siemens MKV is nicer, with better resolution in highs and better defined bass, and overall cleaner sounding. It doesn't have that "exotic" coloration, the other caps have, so presentation is more natural. It is still not the best grade of MKV. I couldn't find the other ones though.
PS: Those blue ERO are my first choice for input coupling now 😉
Here's the older thread that got me started with those caps: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5436&highlight=
The group buy didn't go through though.
The group buy didn't go through though.
Peter Daniel said:
I certainly did not like PIO at all, the copper or alluminium ones.
RTX can sound very good but they seem to miss something
BG N's are also not bad at all.
I'll have a good browse around for those MKV's, somebody must have some🙂
PS: Those blue ERO are my first choice for input coupling now 😉 [/B][/QUOTE]
Great, they are also a nice size to work with and measure good.
I guess you tried different types in this application
t. said:
Not too many (maybe 6 different types), but those I mention here just sounded right, right from the beginning.
Re: Re: The ultimate TDA1543 DAC layout??
All plastic film caps have a ringing, screaming quality to my (sensitive) ears.
My discrete buffer is my own design not some copy of Mark Levinson.....
Hi Peter, Ok, I am using Audionote PIO copper foil output caps. Those MKVs are not good enough for me but I will not start a debate about which cap is good or not, and certainly not about Blackgates. A lot depends on personal taste. I like the MKVs in my loudspeaker crossover. (K-horns)Peter Daniel said:
All plastic film caps have a ringing, screaming quality to my (sensitive) ears.
My discrete buffer is my own design not some copy of Mark Levinson.....
Audionote copper foil caps are more "colored" than MKVs. If your circuit needs that, what can I say?😉
As to your last sentence:
As to your last sentence:
I fail to see any relation to what's been said here before.
Absolute Sound
Peter,
You say they are coloured but I say they are not...
In fact every part is colored. MKVs are not neutral too. Let everyone use the parts he/she likes. There is no Absolute Sound, only a journal by that name.
🙄
Peter Daniel said:
Peter,
You say they are coloured but I say they are not...
In fact every part is colored. MKVs are not neutral too. Let everyone use the parts he/she likes. There is no Absolute Sound, only a journal by that name.
🙄
I'm afraid I agree regarding PIO caps, I've tried them in my tube and solid state equipment.
The results was always the same, artificial airiness and too sweet
Although it is all down to personnel taste and I can see why people like these things🙂
The results was always the same, artificial airiness and too sweet
Although it is all down to personnel taste and I can see why people like these things🙂
Re: Absolute Sound
I agree with that. My response was triggered by something else though.
As to MKVs, of course those are not the best, and they have some signature for sure, but I usually use what I already have in my collection (of parts) and considering they cost me 8 Euro each, I find price/performance ratio incredibly high. Those Audion Note caps are pretty expensive OTOH, and again, I didn't find them appealing with that circuit.
I was performing DAC voicing with BG N caps installed. Those caps present the best value for coupling applications, and their size gives them even more advantage. They are also a permanent feature on that board (if it ever becomes a commercial offering).
It's just happens that when I put MKVs in a circuit, they matched the overall signature and I didn't have to do any changes. I'm just getting a bit more resolutions and refinements.
Elso Kwak said:
I agree with that. My response was triggered by something else though.
As to MKVs, of course those are not the best, and they have some signature for sure, but I usually use what I already have in my collection (of parts) and considering they cost me 8 Euro each, I find price/performance ratio incredibly high. Those Audion Note caps are pretty expensive OTOH, and again, I didn't find them appealing with that circuit.
I was performing DAC voicing with BG N caps installed. Those caps present the best value for coupling applications, and their size gives them even more advantage. They are also a permanent feature on that board (if it ever becomes a commercial offering).
It's just happens that when I put MKVs in a circuit, they matched the overall signature and I didn't have to do any changes. I'm just getting a bit more resolutions and refinements.
Peter, can you please post schematic of your latest 3D TDA1543 DAC with component value? Thanks.
Toni
Toni
Here's the latest configuration. It includes pretty good parts choices and there's not much to be improved (maybe going balanced).
There is one mod however, that makes this DAC even better, and includes following parts upgrades:
* 4 x BG N 1000/50 in main filtering stage (instead of BG NX/STD caps)
* 2k7 Caddocks TF020 I/V resistors (instead of Rikens, but only if V-Caps are used, otherwise I didn't like Caddocks that much)
* 1 uF TFTF V-caps for coupling, instead of BG N caps
The above (8) parts cost in proximity of $600, but I think the upgrade is worthwhile 😉
I also switched to AC PS. While batteries may offer some extra smoothness, a good quality AC provides more dynamics, that are closer to live musical presentation (and the smoothnes does not seem natural), YMMV
I had a chance to compare such modified DAC to my other DAC, ML360S, and while Levinson offers a bit more finese, that NOS DAC might not show that clearly, the NOS DAC is much better in portraying naturalness of music, is actually better at high frequencies (they lack ultimate resolution on Levinson), and is much better in pace and rhytm department (this is actually a big strength of NOS TDA1543 with passive output).
I was switching between those two DAC for last three days, but I think I will stay with TDA1543 😉
There is one mod however, that makes this DAC even better, and includes following parts upgrades:
* 4 x BG N 1000/50 in main filtering stage (instead of BG NX/STD caps)
* 2k7 Caddocks TF020 I/V resistors (instead of Rikens, but only if V-Caps are used, otherwise I didn't like Caddocks that much)
* 1 uF TFTF V-caps for coupling, instead of BG N caps
The above (8) parts cost in proximity of $600, but I think the upgrade is worthwhile 😉
I also switched to AC PS. While batteries may offer some extra smoothness, a good quality AC provides more dynamics, that are closer to live musical presentation (and the smoothnes does not seem natural), YMMV
I had a chance to compare such modified DAC to my other DAC, ML360S, and while Levinson offers a bit more finese, that NOS DAC might not show that clearly, the NOS DAC is much better in portraying naturalness of music, is actually better at high frequencies (they lack ultimate resolution on Levinson), and is much better in pace and rhytm department (this is actually a big strength of NOS TDA1543 with passive output).
I was switching between those two DAC for last three days, but I think I will stay with TDA1543 😉
Peter,
Thanks for the nice schematic.I'll try it with two 12V battery soon. Where should be the dgnd and agnd meet best? Sadly can't get those caddocks TF020 resistor though.
Toni
Thanks for the nice schematic.I'll try it with two 12V battery soon. Where should be the dgnd and agnd meet best? Sadly can't get those caddocks TF020 resistor though.
Toni
I had both grounds connected to the DAC groundplane, on top of receiver chip. When using batteries, I found 47/50 BG N caps work best as main bypasses.
As I mentioned previously, Caddocks are not that good when using BG N caps for coupling, it seems like Rikens are much better choice. It's only when I switched to teflon caps, then the Caddocks started to shine.
As I mentioned previously, Caddocks are not that good when using BG N caps for coupling, it seems like Rikens are much better choice. It's only when I switched to teflon caps, then the Caddocks started to shine.
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