It is always interesting to wonder by what 'logic' people reach their conclusions. Is he saying that similar times to process means similar process? If so, an obvious fallacy. Is he saying that a true lossless format ought to take much longer to process than MP3? Or much less time than MP3 (which is what I would assume - I would expect psychoacoustic processing to take longer than simple data compression)?mr_push_pull said:
he said that he expected lossless compression to take much longer.
anyhow, such things are so easy to check it's ridiculous to even consider such a metric. I'm not saying that FLACs can't possibly sound worse but it's such an implementation specific thing, depending on so many parameters. there's much more to gain when one understands what actually causes the sonic differences. I can't see how resorting to "Linux sounds better" or similar generalizations can be productive.
FWIW. thing is that the Accuphase AAVA has less opamps in the cheaper models. the higher end ones like the $28k C2810 are much more complex and have much more opamps (forgot that it's actually balanced, so it has 64 opamps per channel, not 32 like I initially said). WOW. they seem to put linearity above everything, the opamps used are very high OLG ones and all the other measures indicate the same.
I'd be very amused to find such contraption used with a 'minimalist' amp 😀
I'd be very amused to find such contraption used with a 'minimalist' amp 😀
Yes, interesting indeed 🙂
In another thread recently (Help with Warmth vs Detail), a guy stated his issue with his system with an expensive Dynaudio bookshelf. Then another guy told the OP that the speaker crossover is the problem because he has more expensive Dynaudio that has complex crossover (many components) without knowing that the lower end Dynaudio has completely different crossover slope and complexity.
That's an "interesting" way to make conclusion, especially when attributes such as "I have more expensive components" or "I'm more knowledgeable" is used to "support" the conclusion or to "force" an opinion.
So the Accuphase is the best preamp because it is the most expensive in Accuphase line and the more expensive has the more opamps?
Accuphase is very expensive. Whatever it uses, it must be decent. No doubt about that. But with the same price, is there something better? And this something better, should it use opamp too? I have never heard it but I believe I would prefer John curl's Blowtorch preamp than the opamp-based Accuphase.
Now how can I make such a "weird" conclusion? Interesting isn't it? I think it represents the issue with "subjectivists versus objectivists" (another hot running thread). The subjectivists have too many experiences that surpass their theoretical knowledge such that their observations are more important than theory. The objectivists OTOH have sufficient knowledge and too little experience that they have difficulty in correlating their knowledge with practice (observed things). But oops, its OT.
Jay, I sincerely believe that you have nothing useful to bring. only thing you do is throw stuff like "MBL sucks" etc and then speculate about things you've never been in contact with (I remind you that you clearly asserted that Accuphase doesn't use op amps).
discussing with someone who makes a modus operandi of misrepresenting points of view (like your partial quote of my post about speaker impedance in a botched attempt to make it look like it's about something else) is an utter waste of time and nerves. you have a well deserved place in my ignore list.
discussing with someone who makes a modus operandi of misrepresenting points of view (like your partial quote of my post about speaker impedance in a botched attempt to make it look like it's about something else) is an utter waste of time and nerves. you have a well deserved place in my ignore list.
I can absolutely imagine an implementation where the DAC relies on the PC clock.
there's a thread over at the Digital place where DF96 posted a link where measured differences between 'direct' USB and a Halide Bridge are shown.
it's not absurd to imagine the FLAC decoder to have an influence on USB jitter.
to say "FLACs can't sound good" is something else.
there's a thread over at the Digital place where DF96 posted a link where measured differences between 'direct' USB and a Halide Bridge are shown.
it's not absurd to imagine the FLAC decoder to have an influence on USB jitter.
to say "FLACs can't sound good" is something else.
and somehow on-topic. Eberhard Weber speaking about string types:
I almost get angry when people ask me, 'What kinds of strings do you use?' And then they get offended because I say, 'I don't know.' My last bass was built in Israel by an Israeli luthier, and he puts strings on it. I never asked what ones they were. I never asked him. These things just don't matter; I'm absolutely sure that anybody who has talent—take any wonderful violin player—he could play a concert, even on a school violin, and he would certainly sound OK. It doesn't have to be a Stradivarius.
this is not saying that 'stuff' doesn't matter. but I prefer to think my system is Eberhard Weber and the obsessive-compulsive part of audiophilia equals the strings on his double bass 🙂
I almost get angry when people ask me, 'What kinds of strings do you use?' And then they get offended because I say, 'I don't know.' My last bass was built in Israel by an Israeli luthier, and he puts strings on it. I never asked what ones they were. I never asked him. These things just don't matter; I'm absolutely sure that anybody who has talent—take any wonderful violin player—he could play a concert, even on a school violin, and he would certainly sound OK. It doesn't have to be a Stradivarius.
this is not saying that 'stuff' doesn't matter. but I prefer to think my system is Eberhard Weber and the obsessive-compulsive part of audiophilia equals the strings on his double bass 🙂
Well, maybe it's just that I have not lived long enought to reach that point, but I kinda like to try and taste everthing I can. I'm actually 25 and have been into HIFI for 4 years, and almost every month I like to change the power amp, preamplifier, DAC source, etc.
I mean, for me HIFI is like food, you can have your favourite dishes but you get tired of it if having them day after day for a long time. Cheap fast food is fine from time to time, and it aids you to appreciate finer dishes. Wheter better or not, it's a different taste for sure and for me, the funny approach to things is try and try and try. And then decide. But that doesn't mean keep trying later is not funny 🙂
I don't agree that changes ruin music listening experience, but in turn it gives you a wider perspective of them.
An that's the whole point of it (from my personal experience). I love music. I love electronics. I love the idea of doing it as best as you can just because of it. I don't really care for "listening to the equipment". In fact, I have never asked for a demostration or being in one, in any music equipment shop. That's not funny for me, what I like to do is to build things.
I'm in your same ballpark then 🙂
Another thing I like to do when going to friend's home is to listen my habitual recordings on their low end systems. It may look like something stupid to do, but in fact, I really enjoy it. Not because it sounds good, but because it sounds different. Funnier. Some of them exagerate midrange in a way that some songs look more like a person talking with background elevator music. Other systems are just unlistenable at all, mainly (for me) when they have an exagerated boomy low end.
The other day I have on my hands a pair of Creative speakers, really shitty 60$ thingy, to repair a broken minijack connector. After soldering a new one, tried them, and somehow I liked it. Not because it was good, but because it was difference. the last 4 years I've been listening just high end gear in my room. Playing on them was like a fresh breeze of air. I was listening music on the after I got tired in one hour, and as I said, it aids in giving you a new perspective on your favourite songs you have listened to over and over again in a high end system. Oh, and don't let alone the wonderful feelings you have when you get back to your system, those first seconds of reproducing music feels like heaven.
The other day I have on my hands a pair of Creative speakers, really shitty 60$ thingy, to repair a broken minijack connector. After soldering a new one, tried them, and somehow I liked it. Not because it was good, but because it was difference. the last 4 years I've been listening just high end gear in my room. Playing on them was like a fresh breeze of air. I was listening music on the after I got tired in one hour, and as I said, it aids in giving you a new perspective on your favourite songs you have listened to over and over again in a high end system. Oh, and don't let alone the wonderful feelings you have when you get back to your system, those first seconds of reproducing music feels like heaven.
I'm glad I'm not one of your friends. It sounds like you do this just to convince yourself that you are superior to them. I hope you don't say what you think of their systems.regiregi22 said:
First of all, having a better musical system doesn't make you superior, even if you DIY it. That's plain stupid. Second thing, I don't have the need to convince myself of anything, it's a totally objective fact that a portable cheap speaker system has nothing to do with a proper amp/speaker combination.
On the other hand, I like to ask them "hey, have you ever listened to that band, your all time favourite band that in fact is mine too, in a proper setup"? All do answer no. As I would have answered 4 or 5 years ago if were asked the same. Why? Because the first real HIFI I have ever heard was one that I did it by myself. I don't have any friend with a decent musical setup.
It may sound sad or even strange to you, but in real life, I am not related to any person that likes HIFI or even care to spend more than 100€ in a musical system. And it's just that. Trying to, not convince, but to show them that exists something better than what they have been shown.
So it's not a act of showing superiority, but to SHARE with them a world of experiences and sensations I didn't knew before.
Never a truer word spoken..😀
Yes...listen to the new tube amp for a few months and then swap back the old unit for fun...and if it sounds better you have tweaked wrong..its quite nice when you can't wait to put the new build back...
Its interesting...does a bought amp have the same appeal as the DIY creation...
A real eye opener for me was going to a convention with about 100+ systems on display...and becoming numb to the sounds one after another..the cost had no meaning..some looked wonderful...then finding on the program " Old school HiFi for interest"...so I wandered into the room the guy said, " here we have a PYE ...its been refurbished..it was blue and very small on a glass table..on went a record and Oh my life what a relief..
so relaxed and laid back..It was not trying to impress it just did..
I wanted one..in minutes...I have never been able to get hold of one..
From the point of tweeking..you can get lost in the journey..nothing worse when you can put a good SS amp in place of your megga system and find its better...
To some people HIFI is like owning a Maserati..the sound is important but not as important as the name tag on the system..
Regards
M. Gregg
Yes, I think uber-systems get closer to the sound of live music than the old Pye, and live music is not always easy on the ears.
Maybe photographic slides viewed in a darkened room are the 'hi fi' of photography - the dynamic range is such that it can hurt your eyes, and the scale means you get the peripheral vision going and your eyes have to move through quite an angle to take the whole scene in - but you have to be in the mood. Flicking through a few prints can be a more pleasant experience much of the time. Of course photographs to be viewed as prints can be made more vivid artificially, but then they'd look horrible if viewed on a slide projector.
A key part of the whole "better and better" conundrum in audio is that as a system is improved the details buried in the the recording sound are revealed more and more. Also, unfortunately, are all the inadequacies, the subtle distortion mechanisms that are part of the playback chain, these are also highlighted in all their "glory". Most people don't realise they are getting both elements in the mix, the details of the recording and the playback distortions nicely intermodulating, and confuse the two as part of a total package: "bad" recordings, OTT studio mastering, etc - all the usual "reasons" for the sound not being "comfortable" to listen to.
There is a way out, and that's to concentrate on reducing the playback distortions to an absolute minumum. Perversely, this gets harder and harder, becomes most difficult to pinpoint the last remaining problems, the closer one gets to truly clean sound -- the whole exercise can become extremely frustrating if one is determined to reach the goal of optimum playback.
However, there is a big reward at the "end of the rainbow": huge, enveloping sound, dynamics to die for, ability to listen to really "terrible" recordings and thoroughly enjoy them - there is a lot to be gained, 🙂 ...
There is a way out, and that's to concentrate on reducing the playback distortions to an absolute minumum. Perversely, this gets harder and harder, becomes most difficult to pinpoint the last remaining problems, the closer one gets to truly clean sound -- the whole exercise can become extremely frustrating if one is determined to reach the goal of optimum playback.
However, there is a big reward at the "end of the rainbow": huge, enveloping sound, dynamics to die for, ability to listen to really "terrible" recordings and thoroughly enjoy them - there is a lot to be gained, 🙂 ...
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It's interesting to see how you make a conclusion 🙂
And I don't understand where I have clearly asserted that Accuphase doesn't use op-amps. Because I have owned and cloned these amps.
Well, the reason why it looks like I think "MBL sucks" (tho I have never said so) is because I have been talking about "best amps in the world". So it is subjective, where I have compared the amps only with the best possible.
I have been hunting for the best amp for so many years. Speakers are much more important than amps in my opinion, but the best amp (when we talk about DIY) is never as expensive as mediocre speaker, right?
Accuphase is one of the respected brand, a good candidate for the best amp, so I have owned, I have "investigate" a top model being in service, and I have cloned a few of them. So yes, it is very logical if I have seen more in the level of schematic only.
But honestly, I don't study preamps, because imo preamps should be "integrated" with the amp. I have learnt that the best preamp will never a quantum leap over a good passive preamp. So the Accuphase preamps are for those who know more about earning dollars.
No, I have never had such modus operandi. May be you have seen yourself in the mirror.
And if you think you can hurt me by placing me in your ignore list, I'm sorry to say that you're wrong again. I'm not as insecure as you think. And I don't need to hurt anybody, nor do I need this ignore list feature. This feature is more useful for the insecure.
If you don't want to reply, go ahead, but you will lost your rights to answer 😀 If you don't have the ability to answer, stand up, and say "I don't know but nothing can hurt me".
I know you have achieved this good experience with your system. But remember that it is not perfect (nothing is). Later you might try to hunt for this perfection, and lost the enjoyment that you have now. So, always focus on this "enjoyment" criteria, don't be blinded by numbers or "impressions".
If I get you right, you have mentioned this several time, saying "as if" you have the procedure, the technique, the step by step actions to make this "bad recording" to sound good. But I still cannot see how you do it. Did you "recreate" the recorded material?
Don't worry, optimum sound is extremely satisfying, it calms the "twitches" beautifully, 😀. A single album played at this level is like a superb meal, you have no need to keep eating to satisfy your "appetite", nor a desire for more appeasement.
That said, I am aware that there are greater heights: the maximum SPLs could be increased, tonality on simple instrumental playing could be better, the size of the soundstage could expand further. But, these are aspects of basically quantity, rather than quality; more a subtle enhancement of aspects, rather than major steps forward ...
You're right about the "basic quantity" versus "basic quality". But don't forget that "bass" is the major aspect that can give "enjoyment". Of course we can limit our music to "girl with a guitar" but rock music is okay too 😀
Luckily I don't like orchestra 😀
Musicality of Focal Utopia speakers are to die for, but paper cone really has magic to lower vocal register. I use stiff cones for midrange and paper for the woofer/subwoofer. To match the tonal and speed of the stiff cone midrange with paper cone woofer, I use a high Qts paper cone.
ADD: Above I was talking about how details of stiff-coned midrange (apart from their weaknesses) can improve musicality and thus increase enjoyment too.
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