I have driven on both sides of the road (its fun to travel to many parts of the world, Try driving in KL, Malaysia!!) I have also driven down the middle many times 😀
I think Steve's argument was, "Why not test it and see?"
I don't think Steve is an advocate for the "claim" made by Totem.
The counter argument made by myself and others was that testing is not needed because the claim appears ridiculous to those with some basic knowledge of acoustics and the company making the claim will not present data nor theories backing up their claim. Thus, the claim appears suspect.
It is a fallacy of argument to state that the person arguing against the "claim" shoulders the burden of disproof. Rather, when someone makes a claim it is the claimant's responsibility to back that claim up (if they expect to be taken seriously).
Totem was asked to backup up their claim and refused to provide even supporting data, so what cause does anyone really have to believe the claim is true? If anything, Totem's reputation is now highly suspect.
Now lets see "first we build a box that resonates, then we market suppression (?) devices to, er, tame the resonances"!!
DIY whenever, forever!
Don
DIY whenever, forever!
Don
Nor presumably would they provide the magic chunks free for an independent, valid test. Steve's argument is certainly something Totem would like- they'd be delighted to take the money. Same with most of the other snake oil guys- "Try it and see. That'll be $200, please." (Or in the case of Bybee, much, much more).
I'll give props, though, to Bud Purvine, who actually DID give me some stuff to test, the little pigtail deals that hang on the back of speakers. I didn't hear any differences, nor did anyone else present (hard core tube guys), but I did come away convinced of his integrity.
A very rich friend has the Totem bookshelfs (I forget the name). I remember reading about their deisgns and when I commented to him that his speaker boxes resonated as part of the overall design he laughed at me. He said Totems are some of the best built speakers around. I took a sip of beer, smiled and simply said "They do sound sweet"...and back to the party we went 😉
I have no idea what Totem claim for the beaks, rightly or wrongly. But a good friend has a pair on his ES14's. A speaker with sharper/squarer radius above the treble driver exists nowhere, they are the epitome of BOX.
I wondered what the funny Delrin cones were for, so I asked him. They do this he said and moved them from their inside front corner location to an outside front corner location above the tweeters. Lo and behold, the soundstage appeared to increase and decrease in width as he placed and replaced them.
Now there's a lovely visual suggestion to what I heard- say what you see, as it typical of demo's. But the effect was still audible with my eyes closed, though somewhat less pronounced.
I have a set of Jim Goulding's diffraction pads on my Es14's , they cover the entire front face and surround the tweeter- entirely. Funnily, when he placed them on my speakers it made no audible difference to the sound stage width- for either of us. Sighted or unsighted.
SO on face value I at least am prepared to believe that they are responsible for some sort of audible diffraction moderation. They sure as hell do nothing to damp cabinet resonances, the top of Es14's are dead as lead.
I think it's a shame when manufacturers obstruficate the real reason behind a tweaks performance simply because they know we can achieve similar with something less expensive, stack of coins/coke can etc.
I wondered what the funny Delrin cones were for, so I asked him. They do this he said and moved them from their inside front corner location to an outside front corner location above the tweeters. Lo and behold, the soundstage appeared to increase and decrease in width as he placed and replaced them.
Now there's a lovely visual suggestion to what I heard- say what you see, as it typical of demo's. But the effect was still audible with my eyes closed, though somewhat less pronounced.
I have a set of Jim Goulding's diffraction pads on my Es14's , they cover the entire front face and surround the tweeter- entirely. Funnily, when he placed them on my speakers it made no audible difference to the sound stage width- for either of us. Sighted or unsighted.
SO on face value I at least am prepared to believe that they are responsible for some sort of audible diffraction moderation. They sure as hell do nothing to damp cabinet resonances, the top of Es14's are dead as lead.
I think it's a shame when manufacturers obstruficate the real reason behind a tweaks performance simply because they know we can achieve similar with something less expensive, stack of coins/coke can etc.
Totem's cabinet is poorly designed to deal with diffraction, the cones will make a difference because of such. No different when placing poles around your listening room , this will also widen your soundstage ...
Being that it's so hard to hear comparable differences with such small little tweaks. I decided that even just the act of moving something and sitting back down was perilous, as I could not sit in exactly the same position as I did before. You know with all those infinitely variable frequencies and reflections, It just made it kinda tough. Add in the fact that my head was returning to an infinitely variable position, I had to come to a conclusion as to what to do about this dilemma.
Well folks, after much research, I've finally found the solution to all my (and your) subjective listening problems.
The nice thing is that I have discovered that this chair is extremely helpful in the education of budding audiophiles. Since I was able to extract the original equipment with this chair (attached to the power pole independantly -of course!), I'm able to show others what to listen for when they are wrong with a simple twist of a knob (lever action was modified). It's funny how quickly folks can learn with that extra little "tickle".
Anyway, I digress. The chair is affixed with halo style broken neck brace. Being attached to the chair, it serves to hold the head precisely in place. This should make alot of sense to anyone reading this, as the head should be just as firmly placed as the speakers themselves. You wouldn't hold a microphone in hand to perform precise measurements would you? Of course not!
Now obviously, you want a GOOD friend to help you with these tests (not your spouse!). As far the beak tests go, at this point it seems we are experiencing to much delay in between placing them and removing them. If technology would only allow us to remotely cause them to materialize and dematerialize with press of a button (warning:trek fan)! But that's just wishful thinking.
I'm currently constructing a set of robotic arms (joystick controls already installed see above) that retract into the back wall of the room, which will be used for the future placing of objects on top of my speakers. Items such as beaks, bowling pins, beer cans and bottles (of various brew styles), toilet rolls and coins are just a small sample of the some of the items we will be testing. Please feel free to add to that list so that we can be best prepared.
Take Care.
Well folks, after much research, I've finally found the solution to all my (and your) subjective listening problems.
The nice thing is that I have discovered that this chair is extremely helpful in the education of budding audiophiles. Since I was able to extract the original equipment with this chair (attached to the power pole independantly -of course!), I'm able to show others what to listen for when they are wrong with a simple twist of a knob (lever action was modified). It's funny how quickly folks can learn with that extra little "tickle".
Anyway, I digress. The chair is affixed with halo style broken neck brace. Being attached to the chair, it serves to hold the head precisely in place. This should make alot of sense to anyone reading this, as the head should be just as firmly placed as the speakers themselves. You wouldn't hold a microphone in hand to perform precise measurements would you? Of course not!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Now obviously, you want a GOOD friend to help you with these tests (not your spouse!). As far the beak tests go, at this point it seems we are experiencing to much delay in between placing them and removing them. If technology would only allow us to remotely cause them to materialize and dematerialize with press of a button (warning:trek fan)! But that's just wishful thinking.
I'm currently constructing a set of robotic arms (joystick controls already installed see above) that retract into the back wall of the room, which will be used for the future placing of objects on top of my speakers. Items such as beaks, bowling pins, beer cans and bottles (of various brew styles), toilet rolls and coins are just a small sample of the some of the items we will be testing. Please feel free to add to that list so that we can be best prepared.
Take Care.
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I guess I should remove the beer bottle of the top of my speakers when Im building, measuring and listening 😉
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At least The Beak makes SOME smidgen of sense compared to the Peter Belt tweak they use on some of their models.
If you've ever noticed, some of their models have a colored paper dot on the tweeter front plate as well as one on the back of the speaker.
se
If you've ever noticed, some of their models have a colored paper dot on the tweeter front plate as well as one on the back of the speaker.
se
if you've ever measured your room with a microphone and something like XYZ then you'll know that only a couple of cm either way can actually make a couple of db difference, So maybe the beaks aint that crazy...
But that's only with drivers that excite room nodes. Ones that don't, have a very even free field range of movement vs a smooth change in FR.
Bud
Bud
Making the without/with measurements with the mic in different positions invalidates the measurements.
Huh? Put any driver/transducer want at the exact same spot, at same SPL level, in a room and it will excite the same room modes.
This is particularly true for frequency wavelengths that are equal or longer than the longest dimension of the room.
Your statment does not make sense. There are drivers that play 200Hz and do not excite the room node at that frequency??
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