Re: I START TO UNDERSTAND...
That might be true at RF where skin effect can be a significant contributor to loss, but at audio frequencies?
MR
fdegrove said:
That might be true at RF where skin effect can be a significant contributor to loss, but at audio frequencies?
MR
SILVER
Hi,
Here at least, the general consensus is that sliverplated copper wires tend to sound overly bright and unnatural when compared to the same lengths of copper wire.
Generally speaking it is as if the silver plating causes a phaseshift in the upperband.
Subjectively at least,I never measured any of it.
Ciao,😉
Hi,
Here at least, the general consensus is that sliverplated copper wires tend to sound overly bright and unnatural when compared to the same lengths of copper wire.
Generally speaking it is as if the silver plating causes a phaseshift in the upperband.
Subjectively at least,I never measured any of it.
Ciao,😉
I am highly sceptical too.
Can anyone produce a test to demonstrate LF skin effect?
Looking at a reference:http://weewave.mer.utexas.edu/MED_files/MED_research/Intrcncts/Skin_Effect_Ldr/MTT_96_skn_ldr.html fig. 3, the effect hasn't started at 100KHz, and just starts at 1MHz.
SKINEFFECT
Hi,
If we're still talking about the sonic balance of silver plated copperwires as opposed to plain copper then I don't think skineffect has much to do with it.
You would perceive the same sonic fingerprint regardless of gauge and insulation (I did my tests years ago with bare wire)
Cheers,😉
Hi,
If we're still talking about the sonic balance of silver plated copperwires as opposed to plain copper then I don't think skineffect has much to do with it.
You would perceive the same sonic fingerprint regardless of gauge and insulation (I did my tests years ago with bare wire)
Cheers,😉
SKINNING
Hi,
To me it is just that all metals or conductive materials have a sonic signature.
So have alloys.
The latest alloys we put on the market are gold and silver,it nicely combines both qualities into one.
Years ago a japanese company has done extensive listening test of various metals and combinations thereof and put out a product with a number of metals combined.
Isoda Electric it was called,still a well balanced cable to date.
Cheers,😉
P.S.Since you're at home,John:A GLASS OF RED PORT.😀
Hi,
To me it is just that all metals or conductive materials have a sonic signature.
So have alloys.
The latest alloys we put on the market are gold and silver,it nicely combines both qualities into one.
Years ago a japanese company has done extensive listening test of various metals and combinations thereof and put out a product with a number of metals combined.
Isoda Electric it was called,still a well balanced cable to date.
Cheers,😉
P.S.Since you're at home,John:A GLASS OF RED PORT.😀
OK; so what's the mechanism that produces this "sonic signature".
We're not talking voodoo here are we?
BTW I thought my sign-off was a suffcienlty unsubtle clue as to what is in the glass.
Cheers,
TRICK QUESTION.
Hello,
Amongst a number of things:
-crystal boundaries would play a role.(Lattice)
-molecular differences.
-purity of materials.
-the way the wire is drawn.
-origin of the materials (different mines produce different qualities of raw materials.)
Regardless of dc resistance all materials have a sound of their own but to say exactly what is that causes these is beyond my knowledge.
One could do some trials at home with e.g. copper wire,silver,tin lead and so on.
It has been done before and I'm sure some of it must be traceable on the internet.
Cheers, 😉
O.K.You have your Cabernet,I'm having a glass of port.Can I?😀
Hello,
Amongst a number of things:
-crystal boundaries would play a role.(Lattice)
-molecular differences.
-purity of materials.
-the way the wire is drawn.
-origin of the materials (different mines produce different qualities of raw materials.)
Regardless of dc resistance all materials have a sound of their own but to say exactly what is that causes these is beyond my knowledge.
One could do some trials at home with e.g. copper wire,silver,tin lead and so on.
It has been done before and I'm sure some of it must be traceable on the internet.
Cheers, 😉
O.K.You have your Cabernet,I'm having a glass of port.Can I?😀
The Sound Of Alloys....
Yes, I agree on the above points.
I also reckon that lead and silver do not go well together sonically.
96Tin/4 Silver (96S) solder is fine by my ear, as is SAVBIT Solder (60/38/2 Copper), but I have always found lead/tin solder containing silver to sound overly and un-naturally bright, and to my ear a long term listening additional irritating quality also.
The 96S on first listen sounds a bit dull or something, but on long term listening I find it to be nicely friendly sounding.
The Savbit I find is a cost effective compromise, and very good for pcb reworking.
I also have found standard 60/40 solder from different sources (Aus,European, US, Asian) to sound different also.
Frank, I have also found insulations to cause differing sounds too.
Teflon I find irritating, short and long term.
Differing sheath materials also impart I find.
Silicone insulated 240V power leads, although relatively expensive, are my preference.
Eric.
fdegrove said:
Yes, I agree on the above points.
I also reckon that lead and silver do not go well together sonically.
96Tin/4 Silver (96S) solder is fine by my ear, as is SAVBIT Solder (60/38/2 Copper), but I have always found lead/tin solder containing silver to sound overly and un-naturally bright, and to my ear a long term listening additional irritating quality also.
The 96S on first listen sounds a bit dull or something, but on long term listening I find it to be nicely friendly sounding.
The Savbit I find is a cost effective compromise, and very good for pcb reworking.
I also have found standard 60/40 solder from different sources (Aus,European, US, Asian) to sound different also.
Frank, I have also found insulations to cause differing sounds too.
Teflon I find irritating, short and long term.
Differing sheath materials also impart I find.
Silicone insulated 240V power leads, although relatively expensive, are my preference.
Eric.
Ta Eric,
Hi,
Glad to see our findings coincide.
Rest assured I'm not the only one make such claims.
I'm thinking about a thread all of its' own on this,there is soo much to be gained for so little outlay.
Tell me what you think,
Ciao,😉
Hi,
Glad to see our findings coincide.
Rest assured I'm not the only one make such claims.
I'm thinking about a thread all of its' own on this,there is soo much to be gained for so little outlay.
Tell me what you think,
Ciao,😉
Re: TRICK QUESTION.
I heard Kondo has special dies so that his silver wires have a mirror finish. His system at the HK show had an unmistakable quality to it.
Brian
fdegrove said:
I heard Kondo has special dies so that his silver wires have a mirror finish. His system at the HK show had an unmistakable quality to it.
Brian
Re: I START TO UNDERSTAND...
How about silver 'coated' finely stranded copper wire like RG214 from Germany? It seems to have much of the same quality as pure silver but a little softer sounding; none of the edgy brightness of silver plated copper. Looking at the RG214, it seems to have more silver than copper content.
Brian
How about silver 'coated' finely stranded copper wire like RG214 from Germany? It seems to have much of the same quality as pure silver but a little softer sounding; none of the edgy brightness of silver plated copper. Looking at the RG214, it seems to have more silver than copper content.
Brian
Brian...
Hi,
Not wanting to push anything,
Just for info,Kondo gets his silver at the same source I mentioned.
It is as pure as can possibly be made and cryoed while manufacturing.
There is even pure gold wire in small gauges for tonearm wiring and gold and silver alloys.
Enjoy your music,😉
Hi,
Not wanting to push anything,
Just for info,Kondo gets his silver at the same source I mentioned.
It is as pure as can possibly be made and cryoed while manufacturing.
There is even pure gold wire in small gauges for tonearm wiring and gold and silver alloys.
Enjoy your music,😉
INDUSTRIAL
Hi,
Haven't tried it yet but I fear it may be plated on steel based wire.
Test for magnetism before you buy in quantity.
Ciao,😉
Hi,
Haven't tried it yet but I fear it may be plated on steel based wire.
Test for magnetism before you buy in quantity.
Ciao,😉
Hi MRehorst
My experience says that the silver-plated copper mostly sounds
brighter at audio frequencies. I however do not know why technically.
Today the tin-plated copper is my best choice, and whenever I do
internal wiring, I use the naked tin-plated wires without insulation.
And, I also use 96Tin4Silver solder.
JH
My experience says that the silver-plated copper mostly sounds
brighter at audio frequencies. I however do not know why technically.
Today the tin-plated copper is my best choice, and whenever I do
internal wiring, I use the naked tin-plated wires without insulation.
And, I also use 96Tin4Silver solder.
JH
Solders Sound Different ? Nahh.....
Glad to see our findings coincide.
You mean we are both crazy ?.
Rest assured I'm not the only one make such claims.
Other crazies too ?.
I'm thinking about a thread all of its' own on this,there is soo much to be gained for so little outlay.
Relatively little outlay suits my way of thinking too.
Tell me what you think...
There has been some previous talk of solders but it did not come to much, and a few naysayers were involved as I remember.
We should start a thread called say, Solder Alloys Sounds or something suitable.
Nowadays, Multicore have quite a few lead free alloys, but I have not tried all of them.
Eric.
Lead Free
Glad to see our findings coincide.
You mean we are both crazy ?.
Rest assured I'm not the only one make such claims.
Other crazies too ?.
I'm thinking about a thread all of its' own on this,there is soo much to be gained for so little outlay.
Relatively little outlay suits my way of thinking too.
Tell me what you think...
There has been some previous talk of solders but it did not come to much, and a few naysayers were involved as I remember.
We should start a thread called say, Solder Alloys Sounds or something suitable.
Nowadays, Multicore have quite a few lead free alloys, but I have not tried all of them.
Eric.
Lead Free
ONLY THE GODS ARE CRAZY ERIC.
Hi,
There are plenty of insane people out there having lived the same expereience.
Hell,being called crazy puts us close to the rest of the genious out there.
Have you ever felt the need to be as average as anybody else?
Start the thread,I follow.
(Only because I have to resume my "fledermaus" position and hibernate a bit.)
Silvery dreams,😎
P.S. I'd like the influence of insulators in a seperate thread,wanting a pseudo scientific approach on both subjects.
Hi,
There are plenty of insane people out there having lived the same expereience.
Hell,being called crazy puts us close to the rest of the genious out there.
Have you ever felt the need to be as average as anybody else?
Start the thread,I follow.
(Only because I have to resume my "fledermaus" position and hibernate a bit.)
Silvery dreams,😎
P.S. I'd like the influence of insulators in a seperate thread,wanting a pseudo scientific approach on both subjects.
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