Hopefully, a sensible discussion can come from this thread.
It seems that others I've posted have become controversial dead-ends.
So where do you think you gravitate to on the scale shown, and along with that, where do you believe people in general seem to wander to?
And why?
And keep in mind,the grey area is quite wide.
Have at it!
It seems that others I've posted have become controversial dead-ends.
So where do you think you gravitate to on the scale shown, and along with that, where do you believe people in general seem to wander to?
And why?
And keep in mind,the grey area is quite wide.
Have at it!
Attachments
Hype, in my opinion, can be both good or bad, that's why it sits midway on the chart.
A very nice amplifier, for instance, can be hyped up, due to its great performance, with facts to prove it.
While another product, such as expensive connection cables, can be hyped for its benefits, yet factually, it isn't better than a plain cable.
Not always, but in that case it was quite easy for me🙂You're being quick to judge already?
The difficulty lies in that no matter how much we might like to be at the "facts" end, it can sometimes be difficult to differentiate facts from hype and bs.
This is true, yes.
Because the average person isn't skilled or educated as to what those facts really are.
And so, they basically trust someone elses opinion or knowledge, and file it in their memory as truth.
Which, by the way, is a lousy way, and sometimes even dangerous way, to go about things.
Hype, by definition, is not really much different than hearsay, or an opinion, and quite variable.
BS, on the other hand, is relatively clear to see, as long as the individual is intelligent enough to call it out.
Because the average person isn't skilled or educated as to what those facts really are.
And so, they basically trust someone elses opinion or knowledge, and file it in their memory as truth.
Which, by the way, is a lousy way, and sometimes even dangerous way, to go about things.
Hype, by definition, is not really much different than hearsay, or an opinion, and quite variable.
BS, on the other hand, is relatively clear to see, as long as the individual is intelligent enough to call it out.
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I try to get halfway between hype & fact...but many of us do indeed have a sliding scale of a knowledge base, at home we often do not have the instrumentation to measure what we have a factual based notion of what should be...we rely on our peers for these facts, hopefully measured facts.
Virtually no one has the entire array of instrumentation that has been created to obtain hard data on our array of gear, so we have to trust our compatriots who do have the instrumentation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
Virtually no one has the entire array of instrumentation that has been created to obtain hard data on our array of gear, so we have to trust our compatriots who do have the instrumentation.
----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick..........
Another consideration is the wide variety of quality of equipment that exists in the audio world, that adds to the blurring of these scales. And biological differences can also come into consideration.
Take this hypothetical of how one tweak can be all of fact/hype/bs, with all advocates presenting a view that is honest to them.
This tweak may provide a definite, actual, but subtle, improvement in sound quality. However, it may only be discernible in the very high-end systems that have the fine resolving ability to display it. So those with the equipment - and the sensitive ears - quite rightly promote this tweak as fact.
When people try this tweak on average to low-end systems, the hardware doesn't have the resolving ability to display the difference, so people will label the tweak as "hype/bs", because, and quite rightly, they cannot hear a difference on that equipment.
And when people who don't have sensitive ears can't hear a difference on low to ultra-high-end equipment due to their biology, they will - and again honestly for them - say the tweak doesn't work and label it as "hype/bs".
So the tweak that can actually make a positive improvement is labelled (honestly by all who hold the opinions) as simultaneously "fact/hype/bs". And we then sit back and watch the passionate arguments unfold on websites like this.
Take this hypothetical of how one tweak can be all of fact/hype/bs, with all advocates presenting a view that is honest to them.
This tweak may provide a definite, actual, but subtle, improvement in sound quality. However, it may only be discernible in the very high-end systems that have the fine resolving ability to display it. So those with the equipment - and the sensitive ears - quite rightly promote this tweak as fact.
When people try this tweak on average to low-end systems, the hardware doesn't have the resolving ability to display the difference, so people will label the tweak as "hype/bs", because, and quite rightly, they cannot hear a difference on that equipment.
And when people who don't have sensitive ears can't hear a difference on low to ultra-high-end equipment due to their biology, they will - and again honestly for them - say the tweak doesn't work and label it as "hype/bs".
So the tweak that can actually make a positive improvement is labelled (honestly by all who hold the opinions) as simultaneously "fact/hype/bs". And we then sit back and watch the passionate arguments unfold on websites like this.
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Most difficult part here is the used source... A sinewave generator will give no clue if the equipment will perform well and so does a simulated plot. Now we are depending on a good source to measure (using our ears as only these count in the end). Without a flawless source no other equipment can be judged !!!
So, what do we use as sources then ? A stone in a groove or minced anlogue (digital)?
Tape ? You name it ...
So without having agreed on what source we use to determine quality we just talk...
So we stay in the BS area and keep up the hypes....
So, what do we use as sources then ? A stone in a groove or minced anlogue (digital)?
Tape ? You name it ...
So without having agreed on what source we use to determine quality we just talk...
So we stay in the BS area and keep up the hypes....
The BS and the hype of which virtually all of high-end audio is based, stems from the "golden-ear" crowd who insist 'they' can hear better than others.
Time and again this "unhuman" skill has been squashed by double-blind testing of such skills, & these magic abilities have been discredited. This hubris of our abilities has been discredited in other fields of so-called superior skills, I know of a pair of them...the superior tone of the Strad violin & wine tasting "expertise".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick.....
Time and again this "unhuman" skill has been squashed by double-blind testing of such skills, & these magic abilities have been discredited. This hubris of our abilities has been discredited in other fields of so-called superior skills, I know of a pair of them...the superior tone of the Strad violin & wine tasting "expertise".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick.....
A pleasant reminder to keep this thread civil and the discussion moving forward in a reasonable and constructive manner.
So far everybody is doing quite nicely.
Please strive to stay as excellent as these examples.
"so-called superior skills, I know of a pair of them...the superior tone of the Strad violin & wine tasting "expertise""
I live choose to live in a smallish wine making region that also has music - I often drink very good wine with very good food but cannot afford to every day and regularly experience very good live performance. "Fact" for me is the pursuit of reproduction that sounds like live performance in a large space.
That pursuit is a hobby, keeps the brain ticking over and extends the stuff I learned as an engineer. I investigate 'hype with promise' and sometimes try bits of it (anyone want some unused thermal track transistors?) but at the end of the day its only my opinion and who else cares. Because of my age I prefer analogue.
I live choose to live in a smallish wine making region that also has music - I often drink very good wine with very good food but cannot afford to every day and regularly experience very good live performance. "Fact" for me is the pursuit of reproduction that sounds like live performance in a large space.
That pursuit is a hobby, keeps the brain ticking over and extends the stuff I learned as an engineer. I investigate 'hype with promise' and sometimes try bits of it (anyone want some unused thermal track transistors?) but at the end of the day its only my opinion and who else cares. Because of my age I prefer analogue.
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I certainly can tell wines apart with no trouble, but seldom like any of them.
Pretty much the same with audio, for example capacitors will all sound different,
but each adds their own flavor. None is the "distilled water" of parts.
Pretty much the same with audio, for example capacitors will all sound different,
but each adds their own flavor. None is the "distilled water" of parts.
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