Rainwulf, I'm sorry that the Resurrector didn't work for you. Have you any pictures of the GC that you built using it?
Is that what you are going to do with yours? If you have paid for it then I guess that is your prerogative. Leo and I were supplied ours F.O.C for review purposes and it not be ethical to do as you suggest.
Of course, I am presuming that you are speaking from experience and not off the top of your head. 😉
Is that what you are going to do with yours? If you have paid for it then I guess that is your prerogative. Leo and I were supplied ours F.O.C for review purposes and it not be ethical to do as you suggest.
Of course, I am presuming that you are speaking from experience and not off the top of your head. 😉
Oh i dont have one, but i can guess how it works. That whole phantom speaker thing. its just a feedback network.
Tell you what. Feed it a nice pure sinewave, and then record the output, and measure its THD.
The words you used to describe it dont actually mean anything subjectively, and a good measurement or two will make the world of difference.
The other thing is this, there is so much on this forum about signal shielding, isolation, feedback, interference, yet you have audio and power signals all together in the thin ribbon cable.
I fail to see how that will improve anything at all.
By definition, there is capacitance between those ribbon cables which wont do anything for your SN ratio, and not even going into possible crosstalk, and bandwidth limiting. There is so much wrong with the whole design, it makes all the mantras of amp designing, the seperation of power and signal, the short feedback loops that are supposedly mandatory for good gainclone performance that im suprised it just doesnt burst into spurious oscilation on the spot.
The white and black wires of the ribbon cable are inverting input and amp power output. SIDE BY SIDE.
This is a good thing??
Thats an oscillator waiting to happen.
I am sorry, but physics says that that circuit is so badly designed, and so against the methods of gainclone manufacture that this forum recommends. If what you are saying is true, and this circuit does improve the quality of the sound, then all the tried and true performance modifications and circuits that this forum has worked on mean absolutely nothing.
Another thing, is that if these phantom speakers are making sound, and its supposedly helping, what about all the science behind speaker enclosure making. Does it mean nothing? It takes two unenclosed speakers to massively increase the quality of sound? Sorry that just doesnt make any sense at all.
Some actual measurements using measurement tools would be awesome.
Tell you what. Feed it a nice pure sinewave, and then record the output, and measure its THD.
The words you used to describe it dont actually mean anything subjectively, and a good measurement or two will make the world of difference.
The other thing is this, there is so much on this forum about signal shielding, isolation, feedback, interference, yet you have audio and power signals all together in the thin ribbon cable.
I fail to see how that will improve anything at all.
By definition, there is capacitance between those ribbon cables which wont do anything for your SN ratio, and not even going into possible crosstalk, and bandwidth limiting. There is so much wrong with the whole design, it makes all the mantras of amp designing, the seperation of power and signal, the short feedback loops that are supposedly mandatory for good gainclone performance that im suprised it just doesnt burst into spurious oscilation on the spot.
The white and black wires of the ribbon cable are inverting input and amp power output. SIDE BY SIDE.
This is a good thing??
Thats an oscillator waiting to happen.
I am sorry, but physics says that that circuit is so badly designed, and so against the methods of gainclone manufacture that this forum recommends. If what you are saying is true, and this circuit does improve the quality of the sound, then all the tried and true performance modifications and circuits that this forum has worked on mean absolutely nothing.
Another thing, is that if these phantom speakers are making sound, and its supposedly helping, what about all the science behind speaker enclosure making. Does it mean nothing? It takes two unenclosed speakers to massively increase the quality of sound? Sorry that just doesnt make any sense at all.
Some actual measurements using measurement tools would be awesome.
Well you are simply repeating what has already been said on this thread so I won't bother responding again. You obviously know your stuff but the Australian army (or which ever force you served in) is not exactly known for producing great hi-fi! 😉
I respect those with a formal training in electronics (that I do not have) but I have little time for speculators. And no matter how much training anybody has, when they say that so and so can't sound good because it doesn't tie in with what the theory says, I know that I am unlikely to change that person's mind!
No disrespect to you but it was your type who would have told us all that there was no way that we could have built decent sounding amplifiers from these silly little chips. Thankfully, thousands did so despite the 'theory' and now realise that sometimes specifications and theory don't tell it like it is!
The Resurrector does take the GC to another level. I don't know exactly how but it does. My ears tell me that and my scope sits in the workshop minding its own business, not on the sofa listening to the music!
I respect those with a formal training in electronics (that I do not have) but I have little time for speculators. And no matter how much training anybody has, when they say that so and so can't sound good because it doesn't tie in with what the theory says, I know that I am unlikely to change that person's mind!
No disrespect to you but it was your type who would have told us all that there was no way that we could have built decent sounding amplifiers from these silly little chips. Thankfully, thousands did so despite the 'theory' and now realise that sometimes specifications and theory don't tell it like it is!
The Resurrector does take the GC to another level. I don't know exactly how but it does. My ears tell me that and my scope sits in the workshop minding its own business, not on the sofa listening to the music!
Oh no, i never said you couldnt make decent amps out of these chips. I made my first gainclone in 2000. Still have it actually.
Its just that this entire thing is flunky. Its failing plain design rules for hi fi audio. When people are putting special snubber networks on rectifiers to increase audio quality, here you are with a "magic" device that has a high impedance amplifier input side by side with the output of a power amp.
I am sorry but that there is bad.
Especially after the near god like reverence a lot of people for the original gaincard that had a 32mm feedback look, with the minimum of feedback components. You cant say that design is amazing and awe inspiring, and then throw all that out the window and say that everything that everyone says about audio design and gainclone design doesnt matter anymore when you have a ribbon cabled epoxy potted device that has signal and power wires side by side and that it somehow uses unenclosed speakers to make your sound even better.
Using that simple rule and taking it one step further, you could say that the best sound would be just a driver in a lump of wood. Because in this case here, you are saying that that is helping your sound quality right?
Please dont go and be one of those people who think wooden volume knobs improve sound. Without any subjective measurements at all, and going against what most take as gospel with hi fi audio and gainclone design, logic and commonsense dictate that there is something not right here with a rock potted device.
And a driver in a panel of wood? Are you serious? if they are microphones, use a microphone, if they are speakers.. use a speaker and an enclosure. What it sounds like to me is that this thing if its doing anything and you cant know that until you actually measure it, is that its putting even harmonics into the audio path. That isnt exactly the philosophy of hi fi audio is it.
Its just that this entire thing is flunky. Its failing plain design rules for hi fi audio. When people are putting special snubber networks on rectifiers to increase audio quality, here you are with a "magic" device that has a high impedance amplifier input side by side with the output of a power amp.
I am sorry but that there is bad.
Especially after the near god like reverence a lot of people for the original gaincard that had a 32mm feedback look, with the minimum of feedback components. You cant say that design is amazing and awe inspiring, and then throw all that out the window and say that everything that everyone says about audio design and gainclone design doesnt matter anymore when you have a ribbon cabled epoxy potted device that has signal and power wires side by side and that it somehow uses unenclosed speakers to make your sound even better.
Using that simple rule and taking it one step further, you could say that the best sound would be just a driver in a lump of wood. Because in this case here, you are saying that that is helping your sound quality right?
Please dont go and be one of those people who think wooden volume knobs improve sound. Without any subjective measurements at all, and going against what most take as gospel with hi fi audio and gainclone design, logic and commonsense dictate that there is something not right here with a rock potted device.
And a driver in a panel of wood? Are you serious? if they are microphones, use a microphone, if they are speakers.. use a speaker and an enclosure. What it sounds like to me is that this thing if its doing anything and you cant know that until you actually measure it, is that its putting even harmonics into the audio path. That isnt exactly the philosophy of hi fi audio is it.
Nice to see people appreciate us going to the time and effort of trying this stuff out and posting some honest opinions🙄
I don't really care what you think, I've tried it and was impressed with what it did, believe me if it didn't work I'd be the first to have said something!
I'm not the one selling it or getting anything out of it either
I don't really care what you think, I've tried it and was impressed with what it did, believe me if it didn't work I'd be the first to have said something!
I'm not the one selling it or getting anything out of it either
If it works for you, thats good. But opinions are like butts. Everyone has one. I just would like to see some actual THD measurements, thats all.
And its opinions from a listener which is also important imo.
Not everybody has the required test gear to go posting THD etc, if something has fantastic THD it also does not guarantee to sound fantastic to the ear.
Lots of amp topologies on the market have poor THD but are reported to sound great
Anyway thanks for the comments
Not everybody has the required test gear to go posting THD etc, if something has fantastic THD it also does not guarantee to sound fantastic to the ear.
Lots of amp topologies on the market have poor THD but are reported to sound great
Anyway thanks for the comments
It may be breaking them, but you don't make an omelette without breaking eggs. If people had not been prepared to go beyond accepted thinking, we wouldn't even have electricity!
I agree with what you say about the ribbon cable and longer signal paths (and signal wires running side by side with power wires). It would possibly sound even better if the circuit (what ever it is) could be included closer to the chip pins. BUT the designer doesn't want to give away his secret, which for all we know, is the result of many years of experimenting. So he has potted it up and that's his right. It doesn't mean that he is pulling a fast one, any more than you using a fictitious name on here makes you a crook.
I'm sorry - you totally lost me there.
Thanks for that advice. I'm a complete newbie and would have been completely taken in if I had been told that.
My logic doesn't tell me that. Because something is potted to hide it, it doesn't mean to say that it can't work.
Again, you've lost me. Are you referring to open baffle speakers? If so then yes, I'm serious!
So you can't hear any changes in a system unless your scope tells you that they are already there?
Scepticism is healthy unless it becomes dogma!
I acquiesce. You have valid points, and honestly, if it sounds better to you, then it IS better, and that is all that really matters. If you are happy, then thats the best thing in the end.
I cant wait to build my own new gainclone myself honestly, im sick to death of horrible computer sound systems.
I do want to make one point though, the use of a scope is primarily to see if the input signal looks anything like the output signal. If they arent even remotely the same, can you say it does sound better? Or more accurate.
I honestly think sound accuracy is the most important thing, but i like my positional audio (i game a lot).
I cant wait to build my own new gainclone myself honestly, im sick to death of horrible computer sound systems.
I do want to make one point though, the use of a scope is primarily to see if the input signal looks anything like the output signal. If they arent even remotely the same, can you say it does sound better? Or more accurate.
I honestly think sound accuracy is the most important thing, but i like my positional audio (i game a lot).
It sounds better to all those that have tried it, although most of the others are Polish and have only posted on a Polish hi-fi forum.
I hate blowing my own trumpet, but I have a lot of experience in building and listening to GC's in most of their variations. Due to my ill-health, and not going to work, I also spend a great deal of time listening to hi-fi, not just my own but stuff that I get to review. This doesn't make me infallible, but it should give me a some credibility.
Leo (t.) who has also tried the Resurrector is also very experienced in hi-fi DIY. If anything he is much more critical than I am. He is certainly more technically qualified than I am. Both of us are also very honest.
I agree that the scope has its place in this game. Leo has used his quite a bit on the Resurrectored GC and has found nothing to worry about.
Sorry, if I sound a bit over-protective of the Resurrector. But it does work inasmuch as it improves the performance of a GC to a level that I didn't get from most of the other GC tweaks that I have tried. When I tried the snubberised supply that you don't like so much my ears didn't like it either. But I didn't need theory, nor the scope, to tell me that. 😉
Rainwulf said:
Theres a lot of circuits which limit bandwidth so whats injected into the input usually can/does look different on the output, have a look at the HF roll off from a NOS dac yet these dacs are still popular and well liked.
I do have a scope so may check the output bandwidth and to see if theres any ringing etc.
The main thing is the amp is stable, it runs cool and sounds good, so far I've tried 2 x different sources.
BTW DC offset is around 5mV on the left and right output which is pretty good for a chip amp
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