Niceonecyril,
AFAIK Jaguar was designed for the original Alpair 10, and not the current Alpair 10.x drivers - so it would be good to check with the designer (Scott).
If you are looking for something with the Alpair 10.x and do not object to a tall speaker, then you can check out the Silbury. IIRC Dr. Lindgren had another design called "Samhain", but don't know if any builds are out there.
AFAIK Jaguar was designed for the original Alpair 10, and not the current Alpair 10.x drivers - so it would be good to check with the designer (Scott).
If you are looking for something with the Alpair 10.x and do not object to a tall speaker, then you can check out the Silbury. IIRC Dr. Lindgren had another design called "Samhain", but don't know if any builds are out there.
That explains a lot!
Thank you zman01, I hadn't appreciated that. Similar applies for CHR-70v3 vs CHR-70 driver for Lotus cabinet I suppose. What a shame. The Lotus and Jaguar cabinets are very nicely proportioned and are obviously front firing, so perhaps a bit less susceptible to rear wall distance?. Silbury is too big for me. Thanks again for quick reply.
Thank you zman01, I hadn't appreciated that. Similar applies for CHR-70v3 vs CHR-70 driver for Lotus cabinet I suppose. What a shame. The Lotus and Jaguar cabinets are very nicely proportioned and are obviously front firing, so perhaps a bit less susceptible to rear wall distance?. Silbury is too big for me. Thanks again for quick reply.
Last edited:
chrisb,
That is an interesting question, one that probably comes from somebody with a working knowledge of what many of these full range drivers sound like. I don't have that, so I can only think in system terms. The basic system performance that I would would like is: full sounding bass 4ft out from rear wall (no room corner loading constraint preferred) mid-high efficiency (>= 85db?), driven by Amp Camp Amps, < 5ft high, < 12in wide, < 1ft deep desirable, expansive soundstage preferred over ultimate detail/imaging sharpness, drivers total cost < $250USD if possible, volume 4/10 on the dial max(!), musical tastes: jazz, blues, bit of classical, use for 2ch home cinema around projector screen, no bass-heavy genres, not too hard to build for DIYer with typical tool set, CNC panel cutting available (prefer no bevelled edges if possible). Putting all that through the blender came out with a Lotus/Lotus^2 as nearest match. Shame it's a dead duck really! Any other ideas much appreciated.
That is an interesting question, one that probably comes from somebody with a working knowledge of what many of these full range drivers sound like. I don't have that, so I can only think in system terms. The basic system performance that I would would like is: full sounding bass 4ft out from rear wall (no room corner loading constraint preferred) mid-high efficiency (>= 85db?), driven by Amp Camp Amps, < 5ft high, < 12in wide, < 1ft deep desirable, expansive soundstage preferred over ultimate detail/imaging sharpness, drivers total cost < $250USD if possible, volume 4/10 on the dial max(!), musical tastes: jazz, blues, bit of classical, use for 2ch home cinema around projector screen, no bass-heavy genres, not too hard to build for DIYer with typical tool set, CNC panel cutting available (prefer no bevelled edges if possible). Putting all that through the blender came out with a Lotus/Lotus^2 as nearest match. Shame it's a dead duck really! Any other ideas much appreciated.
As I've opined several times - if you have the required floor space - behind, and for at least a couple of feet on either side for best soundstage results, I think - the FHXL with A10.3.
If constrained by floor space the Pensils come in at approx 14" deep, less than 10" wide, and 43" tall. Very simple build - all square cuts & butt joints are perfectly acceptable.
The ACA and Alpairs would be a very enjoyable combination.
If constrained by floor space the Pensils come in at approx 14" deep, less than 10" wide, and 43" tall. Very simple build - all square cuts & butt joints are perfectly acceptable.
The ACA and Alpairs would be a very enjoyable combination.
It is the small bits, really low level, that allow a speaker box to throw a good soundstage/image. Sharpness usually comes from too much of something that isn’t on the recording.
dave
PS: The Amp Camp and the Alpairs are delicious. I have stolen Chris’ ACAs and used them with A5.2, A6p, A7.3, A10p, A10.3.
A10p is the most efficient, A10.3 goes lowest (by a small amount), the A7.3 goes almost as low but doesn’t have as much kick. It is also the leader in terms of information delivery and might fit your budget better than A10s.
Thanks all,
Great information. Yes I'm glad that the A7.3 would be a good alternative, the A10 is a getting into price territory that I am a not sure I could really justify, at my junior level in the DIY hobby as much as anything else.
I am sure what you say about resolving detail giving the potential for a good soundstage is right. I have always been amazed by the extent to which room placement plays a role too. In my old place having the speakers firing down the length of the double room, rather than across, though rather impractical made an unbelievable improvement to the soundstage. It went from take it or leave it listening to seriously compelling. That was with QuadIIs and Rega EL8 speakers. Sadly I don't have that room (or equipment) any more.
Great information. Yes I'm glad that the A7.3 would be a good alternative, the A10 is a getting into price territory that I am a not sure I could really justify, at my junior level in the DIY hobby as much as anything else.
I am sure what you say about resolving detail giving the potential for a good soundstage is right. I have always been amazed by the extent to which room placement plays a role too. In my old place having the speakers firing down the length of the double room, rather than across, though rather impractical made an unbelievable improvement to the soundstage. It went from take it or leave it listening to seriously compelling. That was with QuadIIs and Rega EL8 speakers. Sadly I don't have that room (or equipment) any more.
Another design you might consider looking up - AFAIK Crisb and P10 have used an Alpair 7 in this one:
Woden Design | Maeshowe
It's a rear mouth design - regarding low frequency performance and proximity to walls/corners - Scott, P10, and Chrisb would be able to comment.
Woden Design | Maeshowe
It's a rear mouth design - regarding low frequency performance and proximity to walls/corners - Scott, P10, and Chrisb would be able to comment.
For a slightly more comfortable entry into the FR driver arena, the Pluvias are worth consideration - particularly, I think the 7.
By now I'm sure there have been versions of the more popular "flexible" design families tuned for it - I've not built anywhere near all of them yet, or even kept a spreadsheet on any enclosures into which they can be considered as a drop-in replacements in terms of tuning, etc.
To oversimplify it somewhat, I guess the Maeshowe could be thought of as a stacked pair of FH3 for the A7.3 - and both require more "breathing" room behind and beside them than Cyril might be able to afford. I'll stick for now with the suggestion of a Pensil - easy to build and nice WAF, for when that's important.
By now I'm sure there have been versions of the more popular "flexible" design families tuned for it - I've not built anywhere near all of them yet, or even kept a spreadsheet on any enclosures into which they can be considered as a drop-in replacements in terms of tuning, etc.
To oversimplify it somewhat, I guess the Maeshowe could be thought of as a stacked pair of FH3 for the A7.3 - and both require more "breathing" room behind and beside them than Cyril might be able to afford. I'll stick for now with the suggestion of a Pensil - easy to build and nice WAF, for when that's important.
Hi Chris,
With reference to Cyril's post here, his room allows him "breathing room" of ~4 feet?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-152.html#post4833065
The Pensil's no doubt are a simple build and capable of delivering good sound.
Btw he's already got a fully built pair of FH3 sans the drivers in the same pics...
another idea - use a supra baffle to mount the Pluvia 7 or Alpair 7.3 and check out the performance in the FH3 itself?But that can be done even after building the Pensils (or other designs)
...zman01,
Yes, you're right. I neglected to mention that post on the other thread here. I build some FH3's, no FE126En's arrived yet - they were really intended for another location. I wanted something with a bit more bottom end here out from the back wall.
From the bottom back of the FH3 to the wall is about 2'8, to the front about 4' as shown, so yes there is (almost) that breathing space depending on the speaker depth where if meets the sloping top wall.
I hadn't thought of building a super (supra?) baffle - that would be a really good idea to try out one of the other drivers mentioned - I might be able to use the existing driver holes to hold it, or maybe some sort of clamping arrangement to squeeze it onto the baffle from the back. If the driver worked well I could make another dedicated set. Thanks for that - I will have a proper think about that.
Yes, you're right. I neglected to mention that post on the other thread here. I build some FH3's, no FE126En's arrived yet - they were really intended for another location. I wanted something with a bit more bottom end here out from the back wall.
From the bottom back of the FH3 to the wall is about 2'8, to the front about 4' as shown, so yes there is (almost) that breathing space depending on the speaker depth where if meets the sloping top wall.
I hadn't thought of building a super (supra?) baffle - that would be a really good idea to try out one of the other drivers mentioned - I might be able to use the existing driver holes to hold it, or maybe some sort of clamping arrangement to squeeze it onto the baffle from the back. If the driver worked well I could make another dedicated set. Thanks for that - I will have a proper think about that.
PS The hardest bit of that build was the bevelled edges - because they are quite narrow on the FH3s I made them by careful sanding - I put the pieces in a vice with a piece of 0.8mm brass strip clamped flush against the back edge, and another 0.8mm brass strip clamped 1.6mm down from the front edge. I then carefully sanded down to the brass strips with a sanding block. That gives you a pretty accurate flat bevel (at ~5 degrees for 1.6mm down the front edge on 18mm thick ply). You have to do it by hand as a machine sander is just too crude. But it is quite a slow process. In one case I did get a slight suspect possibly non-airtight joint - I used epoxy resin to clamp up that one - rather than PVA - to make sure any gap was filled. Having said that, it is a process I would rather avoid if it can be helped.
Let goooooooo...
You know, I really had been thinking quite a lot about a Lotus there, CHR-70 v3 drivers etc..., had converted plan to 18mm, took weight out of top deflector and eliminated bevelled edges, though about chamfering back of driver with rasp etc... I learned quite a bit about CAD though, and more from you guys, so all is not lost. It would help if I wasn't quite so daft though!
You know, I really had been thinking quite a lot about a Lotus there, CHR-70 v3 drivers etc..., had converted plan to 18mm, took weight out of top deflector and eliminated bevelled edges, though about chamfering back of driver with rasp etc... I learned quite a bit about CAD though, and more from you guys, so all is not lost. It would help if I wasn't quite so daft though!
Attachments
Driver compatibility
Sorry for all these posts. I will pipe down after this. Could somebody just confirm for me please, of the English Auto Series, which of the cabinets are now obsolete in the sense that the latest (or in other words available) version of the driver it was designed for is not an acceptable alternative to the original? As a newbie, this understanding is not really clear to me. The plans reference:
Lotus – CHR-70 (driver now at gen. 3)
Lotus^2 – 2 x CHR-70
Morgan – Alpair 6 (driver now at gen. 2)
Riley – Alpair 6
Riley^2 – Alpair 6
Jaguar – Alpair 10 (driver now at gen. 3)
Thanks
Sorry for all these posts. I will pipe down after this. Could somebody just confirm for me please, of the English Auto Series, which of the cabinets are now obsolete in the sense that the latest (or in other words available) version of the driver it was designed for is not an acceptable alternative to the original? As a newbie, this understanding is not really clear to me. The plans reference:
Lotus – CHR-70 (driver now at gen. 3)
Lotus^2 – 2 x CHR-70
Morgan – Alpair 6 (driver now at gen. 2)
Riley – Alpair 6
Riley^2 – Alpair 6
Jaguar – Alpair 10 (driver now at gen. 3)
Thanks
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.