If you look at the pictures, it's not that many components. The schematics can be a little bit scaring but the electrical performance is astonishing and I'm sure the musical performance also is good.
The feedback network is smart but I think a DC-servo is better. Then you have no signal at all through a rather big capacitor. It's better though to have 1 µF plastic than a 100-1000µF electrolythic.
the electrical performance is astonishing and I'm sure the musical performance also
Ha ha ha ha ha...... I'm sorry I could help myself. Often times the more complicated a circuit is and the lower the static distotion numbers are the worse it sounds. Go look at some of the well reviewed designs and you see very simple signal paths. The simpler circuits from Nelson Pass sound better than the earlier designs that measure better.
Servos.
So you want to trade one good film cap for the same good film cap inside the feed back loop of a high gain op amp integrator with another set of supplies for the servo and the interaction of the servo amp with the origional amp circuit. And this will sound better..... Why?
1 µF plastic than a 100-1000µF electrolytic.
Depends on the film cap and the electrolytic. Any one want to put a Wima up against a Black Gate electrolytic?
H.H.
Ha ha ha ha ha...... I'm sorry I could help myself. Often times the more complicated a circuit is and the lower the static distotion numbers are the worse it sounds. Go look at some of the well reviewed designs and you see very simple signal paths. The simpler circuits from Nelson Pass sound better than the earlier designs that measure better.
Servos.
So you want to trade one good film cap for the same good film cap inside the feed back loop of a high gain op amp integrator with another set of supplies for the servo and the interaction of the servo amp with the origional amp circuit. And this will sound better..... Why?
1 µF plastic than a 100-1000µF electrolytic.
Depends on the film cap and the electrolytic. Any one want to put a Wima up against a Black Gate electrolytic?
H.H.
I'm more in the game to design and then try to make comparations (right?) between different items. It's very hard to switch pickup for instance but it's rather easy to switch between CD and external DAC. It's harder to switch between amps if you don't have the right gear. I would say there are very small differencies between good amps, not as big as some people claim.
How many components are there from the digital signal to the analogue output of a CD-player, not a few I would say. It's not the amount of parts that counts, it's how it's done.
Some people thinks, many parts -> I don't understand it -> can't be good.
It's not wrong to design a simple but smart solution but it's wrong to say that a bad solution is good, simple because it's simple.
I will also point out that a slow DC-servo has very little influence on the sound quality, only if it's designed well.
Anyway, I'm very interested in the design idea from the japanese guy.
How many components are there from the digital signal to the analogue output of a CD-player, not a few I would say. It's not the amount of parts that counts, it's how it's done.
Some people thinks, many parts -> I don't understand it -> can't be good.
It's not wrong to design a simple but smart solution but it's wrong to say that a bad solution is good, simple because it's simple.
I will also point out that a slow DC-servo has very little influence on the sound quality, only if it's designed well.
Anyway, I'm very interested in the design idea from the japanese guy.
I would say there are very small differencies between good amps
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ............. I beg to to differ. Go and listen to some more amps. Maybe your definition of good needs redefining.
H.H.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ............. I beg to to differ. Go and listen to some more amps. Maybe your definition of good needs redefining.
H.H.
I would say Krell and Mark Levinson amp are quite alright despite the amount of components.
I suggest we end this debate here. We are now talking about taste and taste it's hard to discuss.
I suggest we end this debate here. We are now talking about taste and taste it's hard to discuss.
These kinds of discussions always remind me of the
wine business. In the industry there are two polarities:
those who believe you can precisely define a wine through
spectrographic analysis on its constituent compounds, and
those who insist on tasting small but finite differences and
describing them subjectively. Even much of the descriptive
language used is the same.
Among the consumers, you encounter:
A) No taste & don't care
B) No taste but lots of money
C) DIYers
wine business. In the industry there are two polarities:
those who believe you can precisely define a wine through
spectrographic analysis on its constituent compounds, and
those who insist on tasting small but finite differences and
describing them subjectively. Even much of the descriptive
language used is the same.
Among the consumers, you encounter:
A) No taste & don't care
B) No taste but lots of money
C) DIYers
I would say Krell and Mark Levinson amp are quite alright despite the amount of compo
Peranders
I agree to stop if you will, your humorous statements are making my sides hurt from laughing so hard. You know how they feel about humour on this forum. Go build one of the Nelson Pass designs and listen and see if you are still so fond of "parts farm"
designs.
H.H.
Peranders
I agree to stop if you will, your humorous statements are making my sides hurt from laughing so hard. You know how they feel about humour on this forum. Go build one of the Nelson Pass designs and listen and see if you are still so fond of "parts farm"
designs.
H.H.
Nelson Pass said:
Speaking of wine..
If you are into good wine ... Try out an wine called "Touriga Nacional" from "Herdade DO Esporão"..
Thats really good wine at a price of ~10$ in denmark .. I have heard that in their country this wine is more expensive..
We get only about 200 pcs. to denmark and they bottle a total of ~32000 pcs of 1/2 litre bottles....
This is worth a try!! Even the boobles are darkred! Smells and tastes good!
Sonny
Was that bubbles or boobies?
"Touriga Nacional" . It's on the shelf next to Coors
at the store here in Foresthill.....
"Touriga Nacional" . It's on the shelf next to Coors
at the store here in Foresthill.....
Hello Sonnya :
"Herdade do Esporão" and "Touriga Nacional" are portughese wines...they are very inexpensive here in Portugal. I´m glad that at least we are known for our wines because for our amplifiers nobody know us. 😉
And for you Mr Nelson if you send me one of yours amplifiers i will
send you the same weight in bottles of that splendid wine!! 😉
Regards
Jorge
"Herdade do Esporão" and "Touriga Nacional" are portughese wines...they are very inexpensive here in Portugal. I´m glad that at least we are known for our wines because for our amplifiers nobody know us. 😉
And for you Mr Nelson if you send me one of yours amplifiers i will
send you the same weight in bottles of that splendid wine!! 😉
Regards
Jorge
Re: DIYers
Damn, I read this and spit out my coke laughing so hard 😀 . You guys are a riot!
mlloyd1
Damn, I read this and spit out my coke laughing so hard 😀 . You guys are a riot!
mlloyd1
HarryHaller said:
Re. DYIers
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!..................... The prevailing view around here is that I am not funny but just a domineering a**hole.... Besides, what makes you think I wasn't serious. For real humor try:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3632
Shhhhhhhhhhhhh!..................... The prevailing view around here is that I am not funny but just a domineering a**hole.... Besides, what makes you think I wasn't serious. For real humor try:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3632
hail peranders!!
......to much text has been exhausted on the 'simpler is better' urgument.....as you rightly stated...cd players contain tons of active devices after the disk long before signal hits the power amp......the key i think lies in execution...of course gilding the lily can be taken too far...for instance...a constant current source biased by yet another constant current diode!!
However, a sound design philosophy, grounded in solid engineering principals, and followed through to its logical conclusion usually delivers the goods in sonic terms.........
......to much text has been exhausted on the 'simpler is better' urgument.....as you rightly stated...cd players contain tons of active devices after the disk long before signal hits the power amp......the key i think lies in execution...of course gilding the lily can be taken too far...for instance...a constant current source biased by yet another constant current diode!!
However, a sound design philosophy, grounded in solid engineering principals, and followed through to its logical conclusion usually delivers the goods in sonic terms.........
I thought in minimum the analog signal hits a hand full of switched (very good calibrated?) constant current sources and a resistor which isn´t really active, normaly it may see something like one opamp after the currentsouces instead of this resistor. that is something like an "current -elektrometeramplifier" (I-V converter)
this is about that much of active elements as it may see in a very minimalistic chain behind the CDP.
for instance...a constant current source biased by yet another constant current diode
How do you do that? Can you post a schematic? Is this the same thing as a cascode current source? I'm serious man post a schematic please! I really want try this circuit. How does it measure? What is the output impedance for a 4mA crrent source?Do you have Spice models?
"However, a sound design philosophy, grounded in solid engineering principals, and followed through to its logical conclusion usually delivers the goods in sonic terms........."
Yep... and if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump thier butts on the ground.....
How do you do that? Can you post a schematic? Is this the same thing as a cascode current source? I'm serious man post a schematic please! I really want try this circuit. How does it measure? What is the output impedance for a 4mA crrent source?Do you have Spice models?
"However, a sound design philosophy, grounded in solid engineering principals, and followed through to its logical conclusion usually delivers the goods in sonic terms........."
Yep... and if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump thier butts on the ground.....
dear harry
no need for sarcasm old chap...see attached for example of pointless misuse of components...a constant current source...whose biasing zener has a constant current established by jfet current diode....to be found in some elektor designs...satisfied monsieur harry haller?
no need for sarcasm old chap...see attached for example of pointless misuse of components...a constant current source...whose biasing zener has a constant current established by jfet current diode....to be found in some elektor designs...satisfied monsieur harry haller?
Harry: I´m not professional in this buisiness and the board is called "DIYaudio" and not "closed club of proff. audio EEs"
I´m not good enough in your language too understand everything of the information you posted, espacially whats humor and wahts serios to take. OK.
As i´m a hobbyist i can´t measure or give u special data, but look this:
http://www.daisy-laser.nl/homeoptics/tda1305t.pdf
u see a datasheet of a audio DAC.
look on page 4 the block diagram.
everything ecept one analog filter first order is included (C1) on the chip.
Everything analog signal will see are the sources where it´s generated and the op on the chip. output of the CDP is direkt behind the C. no more buffers or stages needed, signal is about 1,42V RMS at "Vollaussteuerung"
Please correct me if i´m wrong, i not insist this is right, but its the way i understand it this moment.
I´m not good enough in your language too understand everything of the information you posted, espacially whats humor and wahts serios to take. OK.
As i´m a hobbyist i can´t measure or give u special data, but look this:
http://www.daisy-laser.nl/homeoptics/tda1305t.pdf
u see a datasheet of a audio DAC.
look on page 4 the block diagram.
everything ecept one analog filter first order is included (C1) on the chip.
Everything analog signal will see are the sources where it´s generated and the op on the chip. output of the CDP is direkt behind the C. no more buffers or stages needed, signal is about 1,42V RMS at "Vollaussteuerung"
Please correct me if i´m wrong, i not insist this is right, but its the way i understand it this moment.
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